Battle strategies (quite long post...)

[jorgen_cab]

Some questions and reflections of battle strategies, both in 4x games in general and of course in Horizon.

Now, space is vast and the technology to spot vessels in space should be quite spectacular, and we all know that knowledge is the key to any battle tactics; I hope we all could agree to that. Most games always simplify the importance of detection and the use of scouts and spies as an important key to war and battle strategies.

To know were your enemies are and the size of his forces are often more important than the sheer size of both yours and his forces. If you know where his ship construction facilities are you may destroy them in a swift and hard strike. If you know the position and size of his strongest forces (more importantly the composition of his ships and weaponry) you may strike them in full knowledge of their strength and weaknesses.

My question is, how much information will we be able to gain in the game???

Will our spies be able to gain information about enemy ships, weaponry and shielding?

Will spies be able to infiltrate and gain knowledge about enemy strong points and position of enemy forces?

Will scout ships be useful at gathering interesting information in covert operation in enemy space?


If we do not know the enemy movements, we can not mount an effective defence or offence because we are fighting blindly. We might as well concentrate all our resources in one big battle fleet and pray we can outmatch the enemy if we encounter him.

With knowledge we can distribute forces to match him, and try to concentrate forces in areas where he is weak and defenceless. Our enemy would of course try to do the same.


Example one

The human empire is new in the galactic arena and only has control of ten star systems, including earth solar system. Now they have a rival neighbouring species that are constantly harassing them and they formally just declared a holy war against the human vermin.

Now the human fleet is composed of 25 medium warships and five large warships.

They have no intelligence of the Kuntari military, only that they have about 50 warships. But know nothing of where they are or how they are distributed among their quite vast empire.

Now, would it be very wise for the human admirals to try and defend their colonies and dividing the fleet. No doubt would any such thing result in disaster since any attack would destroy the few ships that might be posted there anyway.
The only thing the humans might do is either to guess what system to defend and place all ships there or attack any of the Kuntari colonies in a random pattern in the hope they will cause more damage than the Kuntari.


Example two

The human empire is new in the galactic arena and only has control of ten star systems, including earth solar system. Now they have a rival neighbouring species that are constantly harassing them and they formally just declared a holy war against the human vermin.

Now the human fleet is composed of 25 medium warships and five large warships.

The humans have several scouts patrolling the borders and some on deep reconnaissance in enemy territory. Spies have infiltrated on a regular basis since the relations have bin bad for some time now.

We do know that the Kuntari have three bases within striking distance from our borders. The first contain three Vorgul heavy Carriers with a full complement of Vector heavy fighters, each ship is guarded by two powerful Visava war Cruisers. The other two bases have five Visava war Cruisers stationed there.

More warships are in their reserves deeper in their quite stretched empire, but those will not pose a direct threat to the human colonies for some time.

The Naval outpost at Scandinavia prime is armed and ready to go, all intelligence say that a swift attack on the battle fleet at Alpha One will strike a severe blow to the arrogant Kuntari, and perhaps persuade them to stand down.
Three Stellar class Warships, and two Interdictor class Carriers (with viper light interceptor fighters) and six Xennoss light cruisers would be the perfect neutralizer for the Kuntari fleet.

The rest of the human fleets will be distributed in small battle fleets to counteract any movement from the Kuntari fleet.

Now the Kuntari might counter act this attack, if they know about it. They might just think the humans are weak and didn’t bother to gain intelligence properly, so they are surprised at the attack and defeated. Or they might bring in reinforcement in the last minute and beat the humans. Who knows???


In these two examples, the conditions are the same except the knowledge of enemy positions and forces are quite different.
Now, of course, it should not be all too easy to gather information. You must divert both effort and resources to do it, but it should be important to conduct an interesting and strategic attack. If you lack this information it is more a display of power than finesse. The one with the most luck will win most wars.


I have read on these forums that single big fleets will not be a sound strategy, and I for one are happy to hear that. But could you elaborate some more to why that is??

Is it because ships are so slow that it is impractical to have one big fleet at the centre of you empire??

Will you be able to spot enemies to counter act their movement in an effective manner? If not, immobile defences will be almost useless, because if unsupported they will be useless against any good attack.

If we can gain knowledge of enemy ship design and weaponry, we can build ships that match them more effectively.

This post is quite long so I should perhaps shut up now and see if there are anyone here who agree with me.

[The Griffos]

I'm with you - I think all the ideas you've expressed here are excellent. Wether or not it would be practical to have them built into a game is the big question though.
I've always been of the belief that most 4X space strat games have far too many ships in them & that losing ships in combat is not the big deal it should be.
I would like to see more of a WWII naval conflict type battle system where the loss of a major ship (eg: the space equiv of the Bismark) would be a major blow to an empire.
This would work in well with your type of ideas as knowledge of the whereabouts & abilities of this type of ship would be amajor advantage & could determine what type of direction your overall tactics take.
Not sure what is going to happen in this game but I'm very encouraged to hear Zaimat say that having one massive fleet is not a good option.
Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Zaimat]

Definately information is key in planning a strategy. And we are taking this into account and have given it heightened importance in Horizon. By our open space design we really didn't have much choice (not that we didn't want to).

The player will be able to get information from a number of sources and the types of informations will be more varied. Information will come from spies, traders, ships, colonies (ie: listening posts), diplomacy as well as a few other methods which I won't reveal.

As for single big fleets not being a sound strategy... In Horizon leaving your homeworld (your greatest asset by FAR) or other important colonies undefended is a very risky thing to do. Any enemy-AI spies will be looking for such opportunities and enemy governments may take advantage of it. But if you rely on your intelligence services to forwarn you of any attacks you might get away with such a gamble

There are other reasons as well. For example: the larger a fleet is, the easyer it will be to be detected, the alien governments (AI) rely just as you on reports to get the location of your ships so they can bolster their defenses or re-align their fleets to intercept.

Ships are not slow but the galaxy is big, even planetary systems are big. A full-size fleet of 10 ships can't cover more than a few sectors and be able to intercept a ship before they hit a target. And this depends if the target was detected early enough for your ships to catch up to them. So unless your colonies are in adjacent sectors, it won't be possible without accurate intelligence/detection.

As for immobile defenses you are correct that they are not likely to be very effective against a fleet without some support ships.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[Ravana]

It's good to hear that unsupported static defenses will get mauled so long as they take out some of the enemy with them. That rarely seems to happen.

I like what you're saying Jorgen, and I agree that knowledge is key. It would be nice to see scout ships as something that can actually perform their role without getting smashed at the first sign of trouble. I thought they were supposed to detect problems from afar and call in the reinforcements to actually deal with it. I'm not suggesting that they should be invulnerable, just that they should be more than one-shot-wonders, which is what they always seem to be. Star Trek Armada didn't make too bad a use of them as you could order them to retreat at the first sign of danger.

If Horizon can get the balance of attack and defence right, then we're in for a right treat! Just imagine the results of a well placed strike on the enemy's infrastructure or fighting ability. It'd be like Pearl Harbour in space. Brilliant.