Perplexed question reagrding two ships meeting in space

[Sim-Mania]

I have a quirky question for the intellectuals of the forum.

I like to theorize about general topics, and earlier today my friend asked me a somewhat strange question; would it be possible for two alien ships to meet each other in space, with each crew standing up normally to them, yet in actual fact, they are standing upside down to each other from their relative perspectives?

This question stumped me, how do you determine up from down in space?

On earth, I guess the convention we use to determine up and down, is our poles - magnetic north for up and magnetic south for down. for a space shutle it is still very easy to judge up and down, since you can still gather what is magnetic north and south. However how does this apply in deep space? Would you use the Earth as your reference, and judge what is up and down relative to earth?

I thought about this, but what if the aliens came from a planet where the poles had reversed themselves, in which case their north would be our south and their south would be our north. So if our relative planets were the measure of up and down, then it would be easy to imagine two ships meeting each other, with the crews seemingly being upside down from each other.

Or is the answer much, much more simpler and logical, such as using the galactic center as the reference point, or using some kind of Gyroscope.

So what is the Answer?

[RobHuntingdon]

The answer is I think you have a thinking problem... Perhaps you need to join Thinker's Anonymous... ( http://www.jumbojoke.com/000039.html )

Seriously, I just don't see this as this big of a deal. In space there is no real up or down, it's all a matter of perspective. As a show of respect to the other, one side or the other would flip their ship over and that would be the end of it... probably...

I mean, you always see the Enterprise approach a planet right side up. Same with a star destroyer. Same with the Andromeda, and every other sci-fi show I've ever seen. Aside from the obvious explanation that this was done with CG, the secondary explanation is that you get "up" and "down" from whatever else you happen to be near that's worth considering as a vantage point. In deep space, there is nothing else worth orienting yourself too except the other ship. So that's what you would orient yourself towards. On the planet, on approach you find a pole and you just pick one. Doesn't matter which is "north" and which is "south" to the local residents. Just pick one and go into orbit. Unless there are other ships around, then you can follow their lead.

It's just not that big a deal. I can't believe I actually wrote this much about it. I must be losing my own mind.

RH
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Robert, the Earl of Huntingdon

Tarry here, my merry men, whilst I seek what adventure await in yonder greenwood; but look thou listen for my call, for I will blow my horn if I become hard-pressed.

Adapted from Sterling, pg. 45

[DeckPrism]

"Remember, the enemy's gate is down." is a quote from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. The hero, Ender, is stating that how you orient yourself is up to you, but an important choice in how it affects your thinking.

So, 2 ships meeting: The first consideration is how they achieve their 'down'. Do they spin or do they have control of gravity? I'd assume that 2 ships would then communicate some and orient to each other in some fashion.

In the book Rendevous With Ramma, the ship spins, so when we visiti it, we have to approach the axis for a landing spot/docking manuver. Then they took an elevator IIRC to the floor inside. Interestingly in that same book there is another aplication of acceleration. There was a ribbon sea, but the far wall of the sea was higher than the near wall. When Ramma accelerates, the sea slopes up to the rear. I mention it because you could, with constant acceleration, have your down be to the rear of your ship. So again, in part it depends on your technology.
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Do not let light shine upon your opponent's mind through a hole in your body.

[Queeg 500]

On Deep Space 9 when ships leave the wormhole the (or at least some) "cut scene" shows the ship banking to its right (starboard) and spinning slightly to orientate itself with the camera. When seeing this for the first time I thought "Why would they spin to orientate themselves? There's nothing to orientate with or to!".

Not a particularly interesting anecdote but it shows Sim-Mania isn't the only person who's thought about it

[Sim-Mania]

Thanks for the answers guys. I knew at some point there had to be some legitamte consideration to this question, espicially by people where this situation maybe a relevant occurrence for them.

DeckPrism wrote:

[Breniir]

Hello everyone, first post and all that. I recognize a few people from the MoO3 boards, such as the esteemed Earl of Huntingdon. Been a big fan of the Orion series, and space empires... numerous others as well.

Anyway, on to the topic.

Astronomers have pretty much decided which way is up or down: they picked a galactic north and south pole. I'm not sure if it was arbitrary or just aligned with the sun's / earth's poles. (On a tangent topic, I wonder how the solar system is aligned with the galactic disk?)

With an interstellar empire, they have to use some sort of system to figure out their location, probably using bright stars to triangulate, A and O spectral classes for example. Once you figure out your location, you can figure out which way is galactic north and south (and up and down, respectively). With a solar system, you probably align your "north" with whichever pole on the star is closer to 'galactic north" and use that for up.

Alien races might use a totally different system, sense by gravitational changes, for example. My guess is if two alien ships meet, they match velocities and stay in one position until they can communicate. No sense in doing something that may be a sign of disrespect or aggression. If you eventually establish relations, maybe your spies or engineers or diplomatic envoys will figure out which way is up on those Kuntari Republic cruisers, and match alignments in future meetings.