Ship classes

[Zaimat]

How many ship classes do you find essential (in a game) or realistic (to some extent) in a fleet. For example in Master of Orion 2 you could build 6 classes of ships (hull sizes) and fighters/bombers/shuttles were not even included.

In popular shows such as Babylon5, Star Trek and others typically you have command/mothership/carriers or huge explorer ships, large cruiser/destroyer/survey types with few or no fighters of their own, medium or transport size ships for supplies/moving troops etc and small fighters.

I personally favor 4 (perhaps 5 if a race could build something like a planet destroyer as the vorlons had). It makes it simpler for the player to manage/recognize at a glance on the screen.

I originally considered having variable ship sizes (set by the player at ship designing) but this was not feasible when we started development so I did not give it further thought and left to ponder for a future version.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[Therlun]

i would like:

-fighters (need carriers to travel between systems)
-patrol boats (for defensive tasks [police] and fleet scouting )
-destroyers/escorts (defensive and support tasks in a fleet and trade escorts)
-cruisers (as "small" battleships, long range explorers, flagships of smaller forces, and as lone trade interrupters)
-flagships (the heavy battleships, flagships of big fleets and carriers)

the most important thing is that every class has its uses though.
in moo2 i never ever have built the smallest two sizes except for scouts in the beginning, and rarely have built the third largest size.

[Anguille]

My list is slightly different

- fighters (i love battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, Star Wars and another tv show i don't remember the name where the pilots where also troopers).

- Bombers (larger than fighters for tactical attack) and sensor ships

- Supply ships (troops, fuel) and civilian ships (diplomatic ships, trade)

- Destroyers (medium class as support or escort for the larger ships but rather useles on their own)

- Battleships (can perform missions alone: no fighters but heavy weapons and sensors)

- Flagships (carriers with heavy weapons like Battlestar Galactica)
_________________
I may not post so much...but i am here watching!

[ForesterSOF]

In the Trasport area I would add a ship to move colonist from a more populated area to a less one.
_________________
You have two choices in life; Explore and Learn, or Vegetate

[DeckPrism]

At least: fighters, 2 classes of main ship, and "thats not a moon" awe inspiring size.

The question of role ties into this as each class should have a reason(s) for being. I could see both fighters and the small ship size used for scouts. I can see the small ship size used as destroyer/cruisers and cloaked subs. I can see the small ship size able to carry at most 2 fighters. I can see the large ship size filling the roles of battleship, carrier, colony, and large cloaked missile sub. I can see the moon size acting as a carrier to destroyers, being a carrier itself, and being an uber battleship all in one. I would expect the moon size to be a singular end game achievement for most races, and a major show of superiority from the ancient race or two. I can also see the moon size as a base for a wandering or exiled race; a battle colony.

If for some reason you dispense with fighters, then you ought to have 3 main ship classes. You could add a third main ship class anyway, but that starts to get cluttered in my opinion since in a game I often don't have a good reason to have a mix of ship sizes.
_________________
Do not let light shine upon your opponent's mind through a hole in your body.

[Therlun]

i dont like the "moon sized"/death star thingy...
it seems so "uninspired".

it should certainly not be a standard ships size IMO

[DeckPrism]

Space, and the games we play in our imaginations there, seems to me to be about mystery and awe. It may be a cliche, but a moon size ship does that. I agree that they should not be a standard ship size. But if you bump into an ancient race's homeworld I don't think you should think toyourself "They have a big fleet with lots of tech, I think I can beat them latter tonight." No, I think you should say to yourself "Zounds what a big fleet with uber tech and it that moon moving toward me!? Yikes, if I survive I definately do not want to mess with them any time soon." Toward that end I further propose that moon size ships not be destroyable, but only be rendered useless. In other words, for every moon size ship in the game there should either be the active ship, or a big relic as testament to an amazing battle.
_________________
Do not let light shine upon your opponent's mind through a hole in your body.

[Zaimat]

Well the ship roles aren't tied to size/class of the ship by the game. And the AI doesn't distinguish ships by their size but mostly their function and design (when they scan you) while encountering your or other race ships.

And you can name them as you see fit.

So with that said

You don't build an escort ship
You build instead an escort design on a medium sized class ship
You can also build it on a large size class ship

Why one or the other? Because smaller class ships have faster initiative (and other bonuses) in combat while larger ships have more room for weapons/instruments/specials and more hit points but far more expensive and more vulnerable in many ways.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[ForesterSOF]

So I would put a Transport design on a ship of my chosing and have a person transport.
_________________
You have two choices in life; Explore and Learn, or Vegetate

[Zaimat]

Yes. You would put a colonizer pod module on the ship design and that would make it into a colonizer capable ship.

Or outfit an empty cargo space with ground troop quarters module to make that medium sized ship a troop transport vessel (or just one of the things it can do).

On a side note since you raised it. There are no plans for making population transports atm. I don't find it particularly realistic to move millions of people from one planet to another easily. And also causes balance issues easily exploitable, Horizon uses "realistic" population numbers. A new colony wouldn't have 1/20 of homeworld. But more like 1,000/1,000,000,000.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[Jambi]

[Jambi]

I was just reading through the galaxy section of the website and realized the ship classes are already setup similar to what I was talking about. That's what I get for not reading through more sections of the site.

[Zaimat]

Yes I wanted to get feedback on size classes to see if it coincided more or less with our current ship design screen. The roles are not defined by size except perhaps fighters types (smallest size ships) which can be launched from carriers.

"Fighters/Bombers - Should be setup as a weapons system. "

In moo2 they were weapons (like missiles), wouldn't it be better as actual individual ships rather than clumped as one unit. We've gone with the idea that it is, unless it causes problems (we can switch it if it did but so far looks good) I think players will like it better.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[Jambi]

[DeckPrism]

Modern carriers carry 40-50 fighters and the US has/had about 10 carriers? In MOO3 one of the reasons you got such big fighter swarms was because of the task force(TF) system which tended to cause you to have around 10 core carriers per carrier armada. Then you could have 10 TFs per side. 10x10x?? = a lot of fighters. Horizon is going for a smaller number of ships as a design descision IIRC. So I'd be suprised to see MOO3 size swarms and maybe even suprised to see as many fighters as the US Navy has now spread across an empire.

edit: Some people say that there are mods or patches which improve MOO3 fighters, so you might look back into it.
_________________
Do not let light shine upon your opponent's mind through a hole in your body.

[Jambi]

[Jambi]

[Warcaster]

i think the ideal is 4 classes

small (corvette/frigate) -fast and manuverable, cant mount much but is
harder to hit

medium (destroyer/cruiser) - slower than the smaller class but still nimble
carries a bigger punch (ideal for deep
patrols, dangerous scouting roles and more
importantly fleet defense)

large (battleship /dreadnaught) - slow and cumbersome they form the
back of any large scale attack. meant
primarily as ordnance carriers or super
heavy weapons platforms these can
soak up all but the most brutal of attacks

Special (moonsize etc) - this i believe should be (as has been said) the
crowning achievement of an empire. nigh on
impregnable these behemoths spell doom for all
but the strongest of opponents.


i like the idea of giving fighters/bombers orders ( and therefore qualifying as a 5th class) but i can forsee issues with co-ordinating the fighters while still attempting to manage the cap ships. i used to play the babylong 5 mod for star trek armada and it was always a tos up as to whether to send the fighters into the fray and leave them while i directed the caps or risk not utilizing the full effect of the caps because i was bogged down with fighter duties.

personally i fell the best choice would be to have the fighters as a directed weapon. ie when you select a carrier it has a button that allows you to set orders for any fighter that is launched from her.

eg i select carrier A and click on the 'fighter orders' button, i then select a 'intercept ordnance' button. the affect is that any and all fighters launched (automatically) intercept enemy ordnance. say i then want them to attack the enemy carrier. i once again select Carrier A and the 'fighter ordnance' then 'attack' and select the enemy carrier.


dont know if it can be done or if anyone agrees but thats how i'd like to see it.

Warcaster

[Zaimat]

We had originally 4 size ship classes designed.

After reading your feedback/comments we made fighters as their own seperate class. Thus there are now 4 ship size classes that you will be able to design + fighters.

Fighter sized ships were made into a special (fighters bay) that can be outfit onto a carrier. Each fighters bay will be able to carry a complement of 5 fighters.

Each fighter is an individual ship, the number of fighters on a carrier form a squadron and are controlled by the carrier. They are not replenished if destroyed until your carrier returns to a base.

Our view of combat will be more alongside how it's been done in typical combat in Babylon5, Star trek etc. By this I mean, a carrier on it's own (with the fighters) is quite powerful. A taskforce comprised of up to 10 ships is considered a fleet and a major force with only major races being able to field them.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[Anguille]

I like what i read....keep it up Zaimat
_________________
I may not post so much...but i am here watching!