Ship classes

[ForesterSOF]

Along with the ship idea if find that games with multiple unit types (land, air, sea) along with the other common ones is what draws me.

For space you could have regular space ships (can only go sub-light speed), Hyper spaceships (go faster then light but time is not altered) and then let your SciFi mind wander for other types.

This could be tied to ship size and technology.

So instead of 4 types you could have 6 or more types.
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You have two choices in life; Explore and Learn, or Vegetate

[Warcaster]

[Zaimat]

For space you could have regular space ships (can only go sub-light speed), Hyper spaceships (go faster then light but time is not altered) and then let your SciFi mind wander for other types.

I originally wanted to make a sub-light and 'hyperspace' but it seemed to be too complex from a gameplay view and introduced a lot of balance issues. Maybe in a future version if I can figure out a simple yet meaninful way to implement it.

so if a carrier is ordered to attack cruiser A then the fighters will be launched and will attack A also? or can they be directly controlled by the player? (as they are a 5th ship class)

Atm, the carrier controls their launch and orders them into attack or defend carrier modes. The AI takes care of the specifics for target selection for the fighters etc. This is simpler for gameplay. But I am looking into adding a manual target selection option. As long as it can be done with 1-2 clicks, trying to keep things as simple as possible.
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[Warcaster]

[ForesterSOF]

For now you may have to use engine size and capability to help distinguish ships.
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You have two choices in life; Explore and Learn, or Vegetate

[Jambi]

[Breniir]

I like the description that Zaimat gives , it seems strategic, without making it a micromanagement nightmare. StarFleet Command (when it wasn't crashing) did something similar with that one aquatic race that used fighters, but I really liked how Nexus: The Jupiter Incident did it.

Nexus did a good job of controlling fighters, while still providing time to manage the capital ships in your squadron. Each ship carried a limited number of craft, which you could give various orders to depending on the type of craft. Fighters hunted enemy fighters and took out missiles, corvettes were good at taking out subsystems on capital ships, and troop pods could board other ships. The troops were pretty useless except in the single player campaign, but they were capable of destroying subsystems. You could start a fight with fighters guarding your ships, then move to strike a weakened foe (providing you knocked out their AA weapons), or sacrifice your corvettes (bombers, really) to take out the shields on a battleship or something. They had to be refueled and died easily, but could sometimes win a fight for ya.

I hope it's by squadron, Homeworld2 made that change over the original, and it made coordinating fighter groups so much easier. Star Wars: Empire at War is similar. Except for the hero fighter classes, which were a pain to fight but fun to use.

Finally, (yeah its getting long, I know) MoO3's massive fighter swarms got to be rather annoying, especially in the later game where your fighters would auto-attack a planet and leave your ships to defend against the missiles and fighters of your foe. Plus, you never saw much of what the fighters looked like, aside from the drive trails and a small grey dot moving around.

[Warcaster]

[Zaimat]

Once the carrier launches fighters, they form a squadron (a grouping) that is linked to the carrier, the carrier gives the order and you can change everytime the carrier has initiative.

As it stands atm (subject to change) you can give them simple orders (the squadron not the individual fighters) to defend or attack. If set to defend they will defend the carrier and stay close, if set to attack they will attack (the AI determines what but primary target is the carrier's target).
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[Fideach]

if anyone has played Dominions, they will know what I'm talking about. with armies, you give the formation, and the orders on what and how they will attack. Now using a similar system like that perhaps with the fighters, with it preselected and set up in buttons for you to hit during battle.. could you just order them to target, or make certian type of enemy ships priority other overs in attack? And if you can target certian systems on a ship to disable them, such as engines, sensors, then be able to set those subsystems as targets on ships in general, or on a certain one, or types. Just a thought.
Also, on the hyperspace thing, a idea to implemented could be done by just adding another "layer" onto the space area of the game. for instance of ship A has the ability and the require equipment (it being an certain type of engine or device installed on the ship) that will allow it to access hyperspace, it just changes the background of space when it enters it to red or so(as per babylon 5). Allowing it to avoid non-hyperspace accessable ships, or those that can, but just aren't actively in hyperspace at the moment. And let those ships that do enter hyperspace, go faster and travel further. The downside being, is that you don't see whats in normal space in there area, so you might miss something, and the equipment required for hyperspace takes up space. That should kinda balance it out. Don't too mention it could be limited to the need of gates, or that its dangereous to travel in hyperspace in areas that in real space, that same space theres a black hole, or some other dense and powerful gravity well. As well that gravity wells could be used as "landmarks' to indicate areas to drop out, so you know where your going.
You could even implement some type of danger to fighting in hyperspace as I believed was said in one Babylon 5 esposide.

[AerionIstari]

[AerionIstari]

I'm curious about the logistics of Fighters. I think of fighters as being a very potent weapon. They are hard to hit but when hit they are completely destroyed. Their biggest weakness is that once they are destroyed, they are gone forever.

In my world, a carrier would carry a limited number of fighters and perhaps some number of replacements. (when designing a carrier, a decision would have to be made as to how much space to dedicate to hangers verses cargo for replacements. Twice as many fighters fit in cargo but they take a stategic turn to ready for combat) Launching fighters is a stategic decision in that you know when you lauch them, some percentage of them will not return to fight the next fight. And fighters don't magically regenerate for the next battle. I know it adds a bit of complexity to the game.

Same idea with missiles. Missiles pack a huge punch and are highly effective a very long ranges, but are expended when used. A fleet would pack a missile frigate to perhaps launch a wave of missiles to soften up an enemy fleet then engage with fighters to take out a key enemy ship or two. Follow this up with a fleet engagement to for the main battle.

In short, I guess, I see both as heavy firepower on demand but with a limited number of uses until resupplied. MoO3 handled these similar to this except the missles and fighters automatically resupplied after each fight.

Conceivably, carrier fleets could be designed as a powerful home defense fleets but because of logistics can't wander far from a shipyard capable planet due to the need for frequent resupply.

Based on some of your other comments, this idea might be more complex than you have in mind, but it might be food for thought.

[Zaimat]

Yes that's how it works currently. Fighters when destroyed are really gone (not replenished automatically after combat). Missiles work in a similar fashion.

As for designing the carrier each fighter bay can hold 5 fighters max (1 group). A Fighter bay uses 1 specials slot (see screen).

What's not apparent on the screenshot here is that slots are limited. Beside the fact that you can only have 8 different type of specials on one ship, it is also limited by ship size and size of components you add.

So for example: The largest carrier could technically fill all 8 special slots with fighter bays for a compliment of 40 fighters. But in actuality your carrier may only have room for 2 fighter bays and it will take most of your free space and leaving no room for any other specials you may like.

Re: Hyperspace (Fideach)
I have designed a prototype Hyperspace system for Horizon (including ship techs and all required to enter it), very similar to your ideas (or Babylon 5 style, star control, etc). I really would like to see it implemented but it's on the list of to do things (meaning probably in a sequel). The design for Horizon was originally based on a hyperspace system of travel but was modified to make it simpler (for playability as well as implementation).

I have not played Dominions, I have heard good things about it. One day I'll get a chance to try it
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[AerionIstari]

awesome, Zaimat!

Two questions:

1- Can cargo holds be used to carry replacement fighters?

2- Do missiles logistics work the same way?

[RobHuntingdon]

[Zaimat]

Cargo holds are still a work in progress so nothing is certain but it was designed mainly to pickup items/debri/cargo and either to use them or drop them off at a colony/world.

The current method of replenishing fighters, troops or ammunition is to visit a colony system you control (or have a treaty with). Ship repairs are also much faster.

The potential is there for things to be delivered to the ships either automatically in friendly territory or by including support (cargo) ships as part of the fleet. The first method is much simpler to manage and implement as well. Neither are currently.
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[RobHuntingdon]

[Zaimat]

Didn't mean there won't be any means to remote re-supply. It's just not in atm. And how developed it'll be is not defined at this point, at the very least ammunition will be easyer to re-supply vs. say fighters.

It's a relatively simple matter to do it in an abstract method where ships have a % chance of being re-supplied every X period (game option). The chance goes up the closer they are to friendly territory/bases and the opposite the further they are. This makes having a base nearby a strategic advantage and necessary for sustained presence.

The second method of player directed re-supply or actually having cargo ships accompany a fleet adds more complexity and management. Ideally you'll have all these options as a player.
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[Therlun]

Ziamat please less teasing and more announcing the beta test...

Everything you say just sounds good... nearly too good to be true.

[AerionIstari]