Great Projects (long, text-heavy suggestion)

[Therlun]

hii
it seems i am spamming the forums doesnt it?
but when do you get the chance to see a such promising game that is in an early enough state to still take influence on it?
ill promise i wont open another thread for at least 48 hours.

im sure you all know the wonders in the civ series. what i always disliked about them (and the reason named the suggestion different) was that there was so little "wonderfull" about them.
they were merely expensive buildings.

i have something different in mind something... greater.
i thought of a game-concept that needs parts of your attention over a longer periode of time without overwhelmingly drifting away from the main game.

examples: (i hope you dont mind some "story-driven" examples )

project cataclysm:


official info-flyer on project cataclysm:

for 6 years we now know of the Dordan Cloud. this cloud consists of so called Dordan-radiation which is lethal to organic life. the Dordan Cloud will reach the Sol system in about 56 years and we dont have the means to stop it.

project Cataclysm has the aim to rescue as much humans of the Sol system as possible.
simulations showed that we are not able to evacuate more then 6% of the population to other systems before the cloud arrives, even if our whole potenial is used for that.
we dont have the industrial potential to build enough FTL capacity in the given time.

the core of project Cataclysm are ultra-large sub-light ships.
this so called "Archs" are mobile biodomes. each can provide room and life support for about 50 million people over a time of at least 60 years.

after completing an arch it will be loaded with people and travel at max sub-light (0.08c) out of the Sol system. it will assume a position out of the way of the Dordan Cloud.
57 years from now on all archs will return to Sol, and begin to resettle the system.
all biological life will be anhilated, but the archs are able to provide biolgical stocks to re-form earth.
our terraformig of mars will continue, and the experince we gained in the past on Mars and "Beta Centauri IV" will be unvaluable in the resettlement.

we guess we can rescue 97% of the population of Sol this way.
the project will cost about 735 trillon Ea'.
end of report.


in another universe....

the dyson swarm: (different to the much more known yet far less probable dyson shell/sphere)


the history of mankind saw an ever growing need for MORE.
more growth, more potential, more energy.
only temporary could this need be satisfied by invention of steam power, later nuclear fission, and still later nuclear fusion. a normal enviroment just had to many limitations, a PLANET was just to small to serve a race like humans.

growth needs three things. the endeavor to grow, energy, and often forgotten, room.
the first we have the last two me may create.

"Dyson-Future Corp" presents the project that will show if mankind earned a place under the stars.
the dyson swarm, future of mankind, home for generations to come.
a project of gigantic extent.

the first phase is realativly simple, for decades we had the technology to start the project.
we'll place a set of solar collectors around the sun, in a far off orbit at around 0.6 AU.
after this phase is finished those collectors will pay for 93% of the remaining project with the energy they provide!

the second phase will be more difficult.
we will harness the resources of the system, and create large shards.
these shards will also placed in an orbit and the centrifugal force will provide gravity, for free!
we will use gravitational technology, which we undoubtly will have perfected at this point of the project, to create and hold an atmosphere on this shards.

humans will be able to live there, and the room will be unimaginable!
if we need more room, we simply create another shard with the surface as large as earth at minimal cost.
solar collectors that are added all the time and that are a little closer to the sun will provide a day and night cycle by regularly blocking the sunlight.

the dark side of the shards will provide endless room for automated industries. no more cost for enviroment protection or extermination of some protected species.

the swarm will be able to process the resources of hundreds of star systems. the swarm will provide room for a comfortable life of an nearly unlimited number of humans.
and all this in less then 200 years!

so buy "Dyson-Future Corp" stocks now!
Help mankind conquer space, and earn endless ammounts of money!

Dyson-Future Corp reminds all investors that the after tax yield is NOT endless. investements may take several generations to pay off. Dyson-Future Corp is not responsible for loss of investments through alien invasions, extinction of mankind or objects with mass larger 2*10³³ g.




that were my examples...
the cataclysm one ise something like a "bad random event" only much larger then any other event of ts type.
of course it would only happen very rarely (in VERY few games you start).
perhaps there could even be choice, and the player could decide on different ways to handle the Dordan Cloud, the archs beeing only one of them.

the dyson swarm is more like a development path.
once every few games you could have the choice to start building a dyson swarm.(triggered by some discovered "limited resource" perhaps? )
the project would stay with the player for a VERY long time,
giving only marginal benefits for very long. and demanding some administrative decisions every now and then.
it could also fail, making it a gigantic tower of babel.

only two examples of things that a player could REALLY be proud of.
a great project should be rare, and not mass-ware like the normal civ-wonders.

[Zaimat]

[Therlun]

[Zaimat]

We are trying to give info out as best and as timely as possible. Unfortunately working on the game takes most of our energies/time and often working 10-12 hours a day. So please bear with us and all in good time

I had started writing an overview on the different aspects of the game a few weeks ago until other things sorta took over my time. I plan to get back to it soon as I can if my work permits.

[RobHuntingdon]

Well... since the mantra of Horizon has been to be different, I would go with option 1. It's a minor departure from the standards, which makes it cool.

When setting up a colonization order, presumably you tell the ship to head to the colony and it's at the spot where it was built (or at least last refit). Give a checkbox that says "Return here after colony is seeded." Then if they want to leave it at the new colony they can -- maybe they want to send to another source planet to build a colony from.

The AI would probably gain some very tiny advantage from this since remembering where stuff is does not affect them. If a player unchecks that box and then forgets where he sent the ship, he needs a way to track it down.

This way, you can make the actual ship more expensive, but the refitting cheaper. And then once they start colonizing, they can colonize again without the full initial cost.

A third option would be to let the player decide on the spot. Say they are in a situation where they really need to get that target colony off the ground fast so it can build a few defenses. Or they need it built up fast so they can get some local 'special' into proper use quickly. Or they just can't afford the maintenance. In a case like that it might be useful to sacrifice the colony ship, knowing the next colony will be much more expensive, for the trade-off of a lot of extra buildings set up at no cost (or however you want to represent it so that they get a boost to colony buildup). As long as you don't hard-wire the AI here, but give it a few guidelines to make an appropriate choice, nobody gains any advantage here, and the flexibility makes it all the more cool.
_________________
Robert, the Earl of Huntingdon

Tarry here, my merry men, whilst I seek what adventure await in yonder greenwood; but look thou listen for my call, for I will blow my horn if I become hard-pressed.

Adapted from Sterling, pg. 45

[Therlun]

i think i would prefer a one-time use of a colony ship.
as i read in some posts by ziamat refitting ships with new technology will be covered by upkeep.
if this is the same with a colonyship wouldnt that make colonies too easy?

on the other side how about you need a colonyship in orbit around the colony for some time?
it will provide the industrial and scientific base for your newfound outpoust, as long as it is in orbit and until the base can support itself.
if you move it away right after founding, the new colony will not be able to be self-sufficient for some time and progress would be much slower.
the colony ship could be like 50 mobile factories (moo1 factories as comparison)

after you think the colony had enough help (it has 50 moo1-factory equivalents itself) you move the ship back home refiting it (for a price) and are able to found another colony.

[RobHuntingdon]

While I think that might be getting a bit too complicated, Theralun, I have to agree this much -- it would be quite neat. What do you think of our ideas, Zaimat?
_________________
Robert, the Earl of Huntingdon

Tarry here, my merry men, whilst I seek what adventure await in yonder greenwood; but look thou listen for my call, for I will blow my horn if I become hard-pressed.

Adapted from Sterling, pg. 45

[Therlun]

[RobHuntingdon]

[Therlun]

it was no comment about your writing skills *cough* honestly
it seemed you remembered my name wrong. (you wrote theralun several times)
i just wanted to clear it up, so that our upcomming relationship may be fruitfull.

[Zaimat]

[Therlun]

[Zaimat]

If the journey was a one way trip it would make sense to make use of everything. Or if we assume the colonizer pods don't (or can't) have everything necessary and thus have to rely on dismantling parts from the ship.

Of course if both ways are possible which is more economical. Cheaper to rebuild a starship or to include everything in the pods themselves.


On a side note: technically speaking a starship would have to also be capable of atmospheric flight in order to land. Most starships are built to travel in space and incapable of entering atmosphere unless specially designed for both (this is 'easy' for a fighter or small transport but would be very difficult for larger ships except for very highly advanced civilizations). But this is not a concern for a game, we don't have to get that 'realistic' but it's fun to consider it for fun.
_________________
Horizon - Lead Designer

[Therlun]

i guess it mainly depends on the type of FTL travel in your universe.

if its easy and cheap and mass is not important you could bring everything with you.
but if its difficult, dangerous and most importantly expensive (story-wise) you would go for as little mass as possible.

the athmosphere problem could be solved by using smaller atmosphere-worthy ships that only travel together on the FTL part.
the colonyship itself would only be a gigant cargobay with FTL-propulsion with room for many small landing pods.
(with the cargo bay used as building material and the FTL enginge used as energy source of course )

i guess you could find a story-explanation for everything once the final shape of the feature is done....

[Ravana]

[Therlun]

i'm far ahead of you ravana!
http://www.l3o.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93

[Sim-Mania]

Since the use of lisenting posts and outposts will be more prevalent in Horizon, will that mean when it is your turn, if there have been any incursions into your empires space or domain, will there be an automatic message that comes up. It has been discussed about how very large the Horizon galaxy will be, therefore I assum it will be very difficult to keep an eye on all parts of your empire, in which case it would be whole lot easier to recieve an automatic message rather than continuously checking every corner of your empire.

Of course if they are employing stealth technology, that is something else entirely.

[Ravana]

Sorry about that Therlun. Well spotted.