limited resources

[RobHuntingdon]

I understand that sometimes resources are hard to do 'right', but when they are done right they do add a lot to the game. It's nice to have something other than "just" money limiting your building.

Of course, it's possible to exploit anything if you try hard enough (and the developers don't patch to rebalance the game) -- but it's a bit easier to exploit with 'mere' money in the way, since that is *usually* pretty easy to get anywhere. If you can find a way to build up a really powerful industrial world, and then put the rest of your empire on money-generation, then that uber-world can crank out some major armadas in a lot less time than the developers expected when they designed things...
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Robert, the Earl of Huntingdon

Tarry here, my merry men, whilst I seek what adventure await in yonder greenwood; but look thou listen for my call, for I will blow my horn if I become hard-pressed.

Adapted from Sterling, pg. 45

[Therlun]

hii together
i just discovered Horizon and fell in love with it...
i have tons of questions and as many ideas although i dont know to much about the game yet.

so my first question concernes economcis.
you stated that the number of ships will be limited mainly by economic reasons. will cash be the only limiting factor here?
or is there some system of "search&gather" planned?
i would really like to see something like this.

civ3 made a step in that direction with strategic resources but it was implemented in a too shallow version IMO.

as examples:
for your *duplex-quark-laser* you need a special resource.(a rare isotope of lithium or whatever you may imagine)
now this isotope only occurs on planets around very hot stars. to build enough of your lasers you have to find a source for the resource first.
-you could either search hot stars for planets with the resource and found a mining colony there,
-or you could trade the resource with an alien race,
-or you could build an inferior version of the laser that does not need the lithium.

a mining colony would be a steady income of that resource. perhaps allowing you to create a stockpile.

if you trade it from another race, the ammount would be limited and perhaps only enough to build lasers for a few elite ships.


some research topics could need resources too.
to develop a life-extension for your people you need an ammount of a biological resource found only on some spacefaring animals...


the resources could even trgger inventions.
when you first find an unstable ion in some nebula it could open up a new field of research. including techs to harvest, refine and use that ion in the nebula.


there could be plenty of different special resources but with only a few of them occuring in one game being selected randomly at game-start.
or there could be a given set of resources that is always(in every game) somehwere in the galaxy.

some could be limited in gatherable units others could be regenerating resources.

[Zaimat]

Welcome Therlun!

Good to have you with us, feel free to ask any questions and share with us your thoughts/ideas, they are all welcome

Those are some excellent ideas you propose and we have given some thought on this. Another game BOTF (birth of the federation) did introduce a similar basic concept where you could only build ships/shipyards in systems with dilithium crystals present, or something like that, it's been a while since I played it But that certainly made such star systems very valued.

Horizon does not feature a resource gathering system as you propose. Perhaps in a future version we could design a system and fit it into the balance of things as it certainly would add a whole new dimension to gameplay.

In regards to number of ships and the economics in Horizon as it is currently... There are several factors but basically the requirements are an upfront cost and enough industrial capacity (potential) and a shipyard (for most designs) to start building.

The industrial capacity is provided by the colony (where it's being built) based on it's industrial workforce (part of the population), the level of industrialisation, the amount of natural resources and the planet environment.

While the monetary costs for ship-building come directly from the empire treasury (vs. the planetary income).
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[Therlun]

yes botf had such a system, very similar to the civ3 one.

what i dont like about the implementation there is that it's very one-dimensional.

in botf a dilithium source determined the max number of ships you could buld at the same time, in one round!
no matter if you did build a scout or a souvereign.
you also couldnt "save" your dilithium. if you did not build ships for ten turns the capacity was lost...
very similar in civ3.

stockpiles and trading of quanteties instead of "access" would is IMO be a needed step for a system that offers strategic depth and is fun.

im very happy about your overall resonance to critics and comments (not only on my sugesstion but on all the comments in the threads here) but perhaps you dont know what demons you are summoning with this...

[Ravana]

Welcome Therlun!

[jorgen_cab]

I feel that the same thing applies to industrial capacity, though not exactly the same as resources though.

How is it that it is so easy to divert industrial capacity in what ever direction you want?
There should be a set percentage of industrial capacity in several fields on a planet. Changing this capacity should cost both money and industrial capacity.
You can't just change an industry from producing news paper to producing toilet paper in a day without extensive resources put into it.

The same goes for a car factory producing armoured vehicles, etc...

Changing the production output of industry should cost both economic and industrial resources, and time. Ware the cost would be relative to the time. A long slow change should cost less, and a quick change to war production should be very expensive.

Only some thoughts.

[Zaimat]

I do agree with your thoughts here and we've done things as 'realistic' as possible and still keep it simple.

Changes are slow when applicable. For example if you decide to change focus in tech research. Or if your colony population is comprised of mostly farmers and you want more scientists, you can't just click and grab em and turn them into scientists.
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[DeckPrism]

IMHO, I hate a limited resource system that does one of a couple of things: 1, it forces me into a bunch of mind numbing move-the-ship-minning, 2, it keeps me from doing some basic things because by chance I ended up in a corner of the galaxy with a dearth of one of the '3 basic resource'. I guess I just either don't like it or haven't seen it done well.

OT, boy are there a lot of MOO people here or what?
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Do not let light shine upon your opponent's mind through a hole in your body.

[Sobriquet]