Pre-disposition for war

[Sim-Mania]

I'm glad to see that in horizon no races are pre-disposed or pre-programmed to go to war with each other (at least I hope so). In Moo3, while that backstory to each race was facinating and a great read, in the end, the game severely suffered, becasue it was ultimately limited to the constraints of the pre-programmed race wars such as fishs vs the reptiles, mechanoids vs the humans and so on. I would hate to see this as the fate of Horizon.

What do you think is the most important area to develop in your empire given everything you know about Horizon? - the Economy, Research, Production, Diplomacy, Military strength, Overall size of your empire, that is; concentrating on continually expanding your empire as quickly as possible, or maybe something else I haven't mentioned you feel is the most important area to develop.

[Therlun]

am i wrong or are this two completely different topics in one post?

the main downside of moo3 was IMO exactly the point you described. hardcoding.
so many things were hardcoded that the gameflow didnt grew from your playstyle, but from the starting situation and the hardcoding.
diplomacy was really a joke! because your pre-coded enemies would always declare war sooner or later.
(as a sidenote: i found the galactic senate to be a great idea! only the implementation was very poor. )

my impression from horizon is that wars are not as common in this game as in others.
while in many games war is the "standard situation" i really (really!) hope war is something special in horizon.
i like the civ series, but in all its parts there was no real possibility for peace.
if you were too strong, all ganged up on you. if you were too weak you were swallowed by a stronger opponent right away.
the ai had so many coded reasons to declare war on you, there was no place for a "real" peace situation...

and again my impression from horizon is that you will interact much more with the other races (doing other things then simple war. like trading, spreading gossip, spying, arguing about political things etc.)


on the second topic:
a really good game would give you a choice, and be balanced at the same time.

you could decide if you make a polluted industrial powerhouse, or a scientist's paradise.
you could have an efficient KGB network, or a costly, money wasting CIA ( ).
both an elite-fleet or an mass-fleet would be possible AND PLAYABLE!
and both a small, compact, easy to defend pocket nation, or a huge, galaxyspanning, ungovernable superempire were options you have.

in a REALLY good game you would have all of this possebilities, which are all balanced out somewhat (i singleplayer game like horizon has the HUGE advantage that the balancing does not need to be perfect, [only excelent ] ).

[Sim-Mania]

[DeckPrism]

[Sobriquet]

[JosEPh]

If you *must* go to war an option to negotiate a Peace treaty if;

1. you are winning and Don't want to annihilate the opposition. A merciful conqueror if you will.

2. you are losing and it is a means of survival. Sure it may cost an arm and a leg but you're still around.

[Therlun]

i dont want an ai that only agrees to peace when it is beaten badly.
and an AI that is willing to accept a managable peace with the player when the comp is winning would be really ... refreshing!

so i agree to the stated points, but what if it's a draw?

i think if both sides are about equal they have both an interest in a peace.
IMO making negotiations much more probable.
if they are faced with the situation of continuing a useless war and only weakening each other in the race for supremacy, the willingness to make peace would be pretty high too.

[DeckPrism]

While we're at it, how about allowing multiple conditions to the peace: withdraw from system X, tribute, don't build a ship bigger than size Y, stop weapons research, give us Z tech, give us V planet, give us open trade. Some of those then when resumed would violate the peace, but perhapse not immediately result in a redeclarationof war. I know I often fight for a limited objective and end up in a holy war.

Although I must say, I don't know how an AI could initiate suggestions like that, though it might be able to respond to player demands. War then becomes more goal directed than simply anihilation and conquest. When the sub-goal of the war is reached either militarily or through negotiions, then the war could stop.

BTW, these kinds of peace also add to the spy game. Are they building prohibited weapons?
_________________
Do not let light shine upon your opponent's mind through a hole in your body.

[Sobriquet]

Conditional treaties or armistices are a fantastic idea. I would like to be able to request or demand that the AI not do such and such or have the AI demand that of me. Specific requests, not just random "your actions piss us off" type of stuff.

[Therlun]

[Sobriquet]

am I that transparent?

[Sim-Mania]

Who here isn't a disappointed moo3 player.

[Sobriquet]

Sim Mania said

[RobHuntingdon]

I don't know if i'd be called a disappointed MOO3 player. Maybe a disappointed moo3 EX-player...
_________________
Robert, the Earl of Huntingdon

Tarry here, my merry men, whilst I seek what adventure await in yonder greenwood; but look thou listen for my call, for I will blow my horn if I become hard-pressed.

Adapted from Sterling, pg. 45

[JosEPh]

MoO3 Neither disappointed or an ex, still Playin and still Moddin'!

Really have to have an Ai that at least has more options. And not have the Death Wish Syndrome that most game AI's are programmed with.

Nor have an AI that reaches a certain level and then just sits on it's collective hands. Somehow have an AI that will reassess (spelling?) it's position from time to time, i.e. so many turns/years etc.. ?

[Zaimat]

. Pre-disposition

The majority of races are not pre-disposed but a few are. If you think about it this makes sense, you've got the older races who have a long history or squabbles even wars with each other and this makes the galaxy a more mature and exciting place.

. Small incidents

War is serious business. That's our view in Horizon. It's not something the AI will enter into at every little incident. Though they will defend their territory from tresspassers. If they are agressive and unfriendly (with your race) they are likely to engage into hostilities. So in effect, overtime incidents can result into strained relations and eventually war after the camel's back is broken.

. Good or Bad races

We don't believe in Black and White. None of the races are programmed to play good or evil. They have a range of philosophies, behaviour and temperament. These are generated when you start a new game.

. Conditional Treaties

I like very much the idea. And there will be some of what you've talked about. Mostly single conditional treaties. Multiple conditions add a lot more complexity and I think you and I would like to see this game released in the near future
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Horizon - Lead Designer

[Sobriquet]

Zaimat wrote:

[Sim-Mania]

[jp161]

[Ravana]