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 Post subject: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:16 pm 
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I dislike the fact that empires are all over the place because of the unrestricted range.I think you should only be able to colonize inside a certain range,maybe communication range.


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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:22 am 
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I like unlimited colonizing.
But I'd like to see something like "empire"/"outskirts" concept.

Let's imagine engines reworked so that 1lvl hasn't 0.75 speed from 10lvl, but 0.3 at most.

Then your homeworld and colonies in the same system are obviously in the empire.
Each colony in, let's say, two turns travel from your homeworld is also in the empire.
Each colony in the same two turns travel from previous worlds is also in the empire.
Etc.

Colonies that are further from your empire are on outskirts.
They suffer from a severe debuff on heavily networked things like trade and science, lesser debuff on tourism and taxes and overall are usually ok only for industry.

So you can grab a planet somewhere far, but to efficiently use it you have to invest into research and/or colonize space in-between.

If there's a race who's worlds if they were yours would allow an outskirts planet to be included into empire:
- if you have free trade agreement - trade debuff is eliminated
- if you have free travel agreement - tourism debuff is eliminated
- if you have research agreement - science debuff is eliminated


This will require some overlay and tooltips to be transparent for user, but the same overlay will tell the player, when they are intruding on someone else's sphere of influence.


UPD: by the way, with such implementation stargates won't be just a shiny trinket.
They'll get a colony, regardless of it's position, on the grid.


Last edited by True_poser on Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:48 am 
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I must agree with True_poser, and not just because I'm missing cigarettes right now.

Unlimited colonizing adds a lot of depth to the game, and would add a lot more so with some sort of limiting factor; especially the way proposed, as it would make industry more important while simultaneously making it vital to develop and integrate your empire into itself. For a fluff perspective; if you've colonized halfway across the galaxy, it might make sense that private or public corporations willing to finish the job for you are struggling to catch up, so you cannot force-buy on colonies in the 'outskirts'. This could be a toggle setting - 'Imperial Outskirts Limits?' or something like that - so that if people wanted to play without the limitations they could.

On a similar note about integration... I feel it should be much, much harder to assimilate conquered species. Now, I know we all like using the worlds bombed into glass approach here, ( :twisted: ) but having played a few games worth of ground assault, one thing I've noticed is that you can pop some morale structures and integrate xenolife fairly easily. I think this should be impossible save with worlds gained from peace treaties/if the player is playing the Tantik. Elsewise, it should be *much*, *much* easier to integrate aliens you've had a long, fruitful peace with. Similar to how True_poser's ideas affect Outskirts Limits, I would recommend increasing the hurdles of newly conquered worlds, and making it so that for every level of treaty - and perhaps only fully when you've achieved alliance - you can more easily integrate worlds with populations not your own. This might be too complex, and I do not think it is a priority in - but I'll throw it out, all the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:48 pm 
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I would honestly prefer how Master Of Orion 2 did it with fuel cells or something this game can have, because i find it really unrealistic when the AI just goes and colonize right towards me, the second they meet me and before i know it, they might be in sector 1, i am in sector 6, then bam, somehow they say hello, with no ships in the area, completely out of communication range, then a few turns later, bam, they have a colony right near me, then they cry about me being too close to them.

I think they need to increase the sectors to like 12 or something or even 24 sectors, i think that the player and AI should be limited to their sector until tech level 5 of engine technology and communications, that way, it will stop mass expansions, stop the AI was going out of its way to jump right to the player and then colonize a world and then have a hissy fit about the player being too close and the story missions can pretty much stay the same, it just means it gives us more time to develop before being encountered by all the races within 2 turns....like i tend to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:33 pm 
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Well, my suggestion works the same way, actually.
2 turns * speed is the same as fuel cell radius.

But it does not prevent exploration (smallest map here is like MOO2's large).
And, as fringe colonies are mostly useless, does it matter, do you put a trail of supply outposts before colonizing or after?


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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Well, the one thing that Master of Orion 2 has over Horizon right now is that Orion 2 took some time to encounter a single race, i mean, i could spend 75 turns just doing my own thing, expanding, taking my time and i never encounter another race until around turn 90-100, but on Horizon, its like between 5-25 turns and the moment they do the whole 'first contact video', they go out of their way to come to where i am and then complain about me being too close to their colonies and thats my homeworld they are crying about.

I do hope that the developers severely lower the range that the AI can travel without supply bays or whatever, because it isn't fun when an alien scout ship with no supply bays comes to me within 5 turns and the race that it belongs to is like 2-3 whole sectors away (as in, i am in sector 6 and they are in sector 1), i mean i can accept the transient race being able to do it relatively well, but other races, it just shouldn't be possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:08 pm 
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That's exactly the point.
If it's not effective to have colonies "overseas" then AI just won't make them.
It's a simple cost-benefit analysis.

AI will travel and explore, you will travel and explore, you'll know about each other, but you won't bump noses.
Yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Messy borders.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:10 pm 
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True_poser wrote:
That's exactly the point.
If it's not effective to have colonies "overseas" then AI just won't make them.
It's a simple cost-benefit analysis.

AI will travel and explore, you will travel and explore, you'll know about each other, but you won't bump noses.
Yet.


I wish it was like that with Horizon, but sadly, that isn't the case.


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