RESOLVED - [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Report bugs or help with technical issues
Xyquas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 140
Location: Berlin, Germany

RESOLVED - [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Xyquas »

I had an ISN report showing expansion status and the graph didn't fit the text. In the texts (both announcement and stats list) it says that Har'kan are top expansionists while the graph shows a yellow line for top expansionist which would be the Tantik. Some of the other lines also seem to be messed up:
Kuntari: graph Rank 2, text rank 5
Varaians: graph Rank 6, text rank 4

See yourself: Image at postimg.org
Master Of Orion 2 = Great
Master Of Orion 3 = Trash
Horizon = The real Master Of Orion 3 :-)

Grogger
Dev. Team
Dev. Team
Posts: 79

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Grogger »

Thanks for reporting, I'll keep a lookout for it

Xyquas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 140
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Xyquas »

I've got another one that I feel is related: When ISN reports the financial status of the species, I cannot find the number given to be plausible in any way.

Example:
I played Barbeck and ISN reported me on rank 8 in the galaxy with 1.16 Mio. While rank 8 seemed to be correct I had an income of 405 MC and a treasury of 7.96 BC in the turn right after this ISN report. I can't see how the numbers match (screenshots available if you need them).
Master Of Orion 2 = Great
Master Of Orion 3 = Trash
Horizon = The real Master Of Orion 3 :-)

Bansheedragon
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 169

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Bansheedragon »

I noticed this discrepancy as well, I havent been able to check it myself yet, however could the numbers reported be your gross income and not your net income or treasury?

Xyquas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 140
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Xyquas »

Bansheedragon wrote:I noticed this discrepancy as well, I havent been able to check it myself yet, however could the numbers reported be your gross income and not your net income or treasury?
That would be even more strange, as gross income is always larger than net income and my net income is about 400 times as much as the number given. And I doubt that MC (million credits) and BC (billion credits) get messed up because when income grows, ISN reports BC instead of MC.
Master Of Orion 2 = Great
Master Of Orion 3 = Trash
Horizon = The real Master Of Orion 3 :-)

User avatar
Zaimat
Dev. Team
Dev. Team
Posts: 1425
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Zaimat »

Xyquas wrote:I had an ISN report showing expansion status and the graph didn't fit the text.
The graph for the expansion was showing the number of colonies (correctly) while the list text was showing the expansion score for the race. We've made the change so both will now display the same correctly based on the actual number of colonies.
Bansheedragon wrote:I noticed this discrepancy as well, I havent been able to check it myself yet, however could the numbers reported be your gross income and not your net income or treasury?
That is correct, the economy stats show your gross income but it was showing the units erroneously (eg: billions would show in millions), we've corrected this for the next patch. Thanks!
Horizon - Lead Designer | a.k.a. Raf

Xyquas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 140
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Xyquas »

Zaimat wrote:That is correct, the economy stats show your gross income but it was showing the units erroneously (eg: billions would show in millions), we've corrected this for the next patch. Thanks!
Hm. I expected this to be the treasury. Showing the gross income is very unusual as it does not show the actual financial status. I'm asking myself how ISN gets this information. "Hey Tantik leader, show us your books"? :mrgreen:
It seems not to fit the other reports which all show a static value (current number of colonies, current number of ships). Isn't the graph in the statistics for determining the growth (and therefore the income)?
Master Of Orion 2 = Great
Master Of Orion 3 = Trash
Horizon = The real Master Of Orion 3 :-)

Bansheedragon
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 169

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Bansheedragon »

Xyquas wrote:
Zaimat wrote:That is correct, the economy stats show your gross income but it was showing the units erroneously (eg: billions would show in millions), we've corrected this for the next patch. Thanks!
Hm. I expected this to be the treasury. Showing the gross income is very unusual as it does not show the actual financial status. I'm asking myself how ISN gets this information. "Hey Tantik leader, show us your books"? :mrgreen:
It seems not to fit the other reports which all show a static value (current number of colonies, current number of ships). Isn't the graph in the statistics for determining the growth (and therefore the income)?
Static values?
That would indicate the values never change, which they do.

Using the treasury and as indication of a races financial growth is not really a good way of looking at it as that amount would change all the time depending on what you build of ships and colonies.
The gross income is a much more accurate indication a races financial growth if you ask me.

Xyquas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 140
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Xyquas »

Bansheedragon wrote: Static values?
That would indicate the values never change, which they do.
You're right, that was an unlucky choosing of words. What I meant was that knowing the gross income is almost worthless because I just can say what a player can do this one turn at minimum but I cannot say if he is capable of more due to a huge treasury. Probably it would be best to get both informations.
Example:
We're at the early mid game phase. Empire 1 has a gross income of 11 BC and Empire 2 has a gross income of 400 MC. This looks like Empire 1 can do more each turn thant Empire 2. But maybe the expenses of Empire 1 are so high, that his net income is, say, 250 MC while Empire 2's net income is 300 MC. And the treasury of Empire 1 is 250 MC while the treasury of Empire 2 is 25 BC due to saving the money. If I want to know how many ships either empire could throw at me in case of an attack, Empire 2 would actually be the greater theat.

I know this example is made up but I hope you get the idea.
Master Of Orion 2 = Great
Master Of Orion 3 = Trash
Horizon = The real Master Of Orion 3 :-)

Bansheedragon
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 169

Re: [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Bansheedragon »

That makes more sense than your previous post yeah.
I'm not really sure how to comment on this right now, I'll have to give it some thought.

User avatar
Zaimat
Dev. Team
Dev. Team
Posts: 1425
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: RESOLVED - [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Zaimat »

Typically Economies are measured by their yearly GDP (Gross Domestic Product) which mostly resembles the gross income in game. What it does is show their economic output or the size of their economy.

If we used the treasury for example, it would have to be represented as the wealthiest nation. Or in the case of Net Income, the most profitable race last turn. Neither would tell us much about their economy size.
Horizon - Lead Designer | a.k.a. Raf

Xyquas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 140
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: RESOLVED - [1.0.0.92] ISN messes up graph and list

Post by Xyquas »

Zaimat wrote:Typically Economies are measured by their yearly GDP (Gross Domestic Product) which mostly resembles the gross income in game. What it does is show their economic output or the size of their economy.

If we used the treasury for example, it would have to be represented as the wealthiest nation. Or in the case of Net Income, the most profitable race last turn. Neither would tell us much about their economy size.
Okay, if this was your intention then you reached your goal.

Personally, I think it's nonsense to measure gross income because it tells nothing about the range of available finances. For example we have quite large differences in loans between certain areas of Germany (I'm sure it's the same in all other countries) where you get up to 200% salary for the same job. But if maintenance costs are 200% too (which most often is the case) then the mathematically "more" is an actual "equals". So the interesting part of the question is "What can I do with the money left?" which is the net income.

Finally, using treasury or net income for additional stats would be a suggestion but for me there are other features that I find more interesting to be implemented before :-)
Master Of Orion 2 = Great
Master Of Orion 3 = Trash
Horizon = The real Master Of Orion 3 :-)