Difficuly discovering new techs during research

[Bansheedragon]

I dont think think this classifies as a bug, but I could still use some help here.

I got my race set as humans, creative and research set to Good(125% efficiency).
Yet I have been having trouble discovering new tech in the fields of propulsion and Armor.

I played several games lately, and the only way I was able to acquire the techs in those fields was through planetary digs or by getting them from other races.
I have gotten the techs as high as level 6 without getting any new discoveries, and I was wondering just how much it takes to discover a new tech in those fields.

I dont have any current savegames I can refer to, but I'm hoping that someone might be able to offer me some help on this.

[keller]

If you are at war with someone then try capturing some ships and deconstructing them

[Bansheedragon]

And what do I do if I'm not at war with anyone?
I usually try to avoid war for the longest possible, so this is not really a viable solution until around mid-game.
At this time I usually had several breakthroughs in every other area except these two.

Another problem with this solution is that whatever AI I would be at war with would have superior defenses in the form of better armor and even shields.
This usually results in whatever enemy I fight takes out my ships before I get a chance to capture them, unless I have superior numbers which is not always possible.

But why is it harder to get a breakthrough in those two tech fields than any of the others?

[Zaimat]

The way discoveries work is that every time a tech levels it gives a chance to discover a new tech in the same field. The chance increases as the tech gets higher in level (this is balanced in that low level techs are easier to level).

The formula is: discovery = 5% * techLvl + creativeBonus

I've looked over the code and the chance to make new discoveries is the same in all tech fields. Randomness can be streaky in short samples though so that sometimes works in your favor sometimes not.

I did find a problem with the creative race trait not providing the correct +10% amount. I have since fixed that to be included in the next version.

[keller]

Also , it helps to build up research laboratories on planets. I like to have at least one per a planet but there are some that I dedicate to research.

You may even want to concentrate your research a little in one area for a 8-10 turns and if needed you can further concentrate on a given tech within a field.

[Bansheedragon]

Current game
Turn 227
Titanium Armor level 7
Still the only tech available in the field of armor

In the field of Propulsion I have got fusion engines.

In every other field I have had multiple discoveries so why is it so hard to make new discoveries in the field of armor?

I dont have research labs on every planet, but I have them on at least half of them, and they are all Tier 2 labs or higher.

Since Titanium is the only available tech in the field of armor, there is nothing to be gained by focusing further on that specific tech.
I did try to concentrate in Armor tech as you suggested for a while, but it had no effect beyond getting the next level of titanium faster.

It was never this hard to discover new techs before, which makes me wonder if there has been some changes to the numbers and triggers in the background(code) thats causing me to not discover new techs in that field.

[Bansheedragon]

The way discoveries work is that every time a tech levels it gives a chance to discover a new tech in the same field. The chance increases as the tech gets higher in level (this is balanced in that low level techs are easier to level).

The formula is: discovery = 5% * techLvl + creativeBonus

I've looked over the code and the chance to make new discoveries is the same in all tech fields. Randomness can be streaky in short samples though so that sometimes works in your favor sometimes not.

I did find a problem with the creative race trait not providing the correct +10% amount. I have since fixed that to be included in the next version.

Didnt see this post until after I posted the above.
That could explain why I find it so difficult, I just find it odd that is this difficult in that one particular field.
I'll see how things are after the next update though, hopefully it will improve things a little.

[keller]

here is something you have not mentioned. How many digs have you done on planets?

[Bansheedragon]

here is something you have not mentioned. How many digs have you done on planets?

I have not kept count of the number of digs I have done and the number I am able to do varies depending on the game and how many AI opponents I have.
But I dont see what this have to do with the issue at hand.

My problem is that after 200+ turns and lvl 7 in titanium armor, I still have no other armor techs available, while in other areas such as biotech, electronics, and construction I have made multiple discoveries.

I made some discoveries from digs, but not as many as you might think, and enough to that I can completely dismiss the discrepancy between the armor tech and the other fields

[keller]

Is this occurring in every game or just one? I know I have had a couple games where I had to trade to get an armor tech, so it is possible that this is game play bug/issue with the armor techs.

[Bansheedragon]

Is this occurring in every game or just one? I know I have had a couple games where I had to trade to get an armor tech, so it is possible that this is game play bug/issue with the armor techs.

Been so for at least the last 5 games I played.
I sometimes have one of the AI demand I give them some tech, when they do I always ask for tech in return.
When I do I see that they have at least 2 other armor techs, usually more.

The problem is that I have ended up lagging so far behind in defenses on my ships that I need 3-4 ships just to defeat one of the AI when they attacked me.

[keller]

If you are playing in normal mode then my post here might address some of the issues you are experiencing.

[True_poser]

The formula is: discovery = 5% * techLvl + creativeBonus
Randomness can be streaky in short samples though so that sometimes works in your favor sometimes not.

Actually it does not balance itself out.



I've left out first level because I'm more interested in initial race development.
And it does not look too good as (until you have a big break with lvl3 science buildings) each level takes 2x RPs and roughly 1,7-1,8 times to achieve.

What does it mean for stock races?
Only one race is creative, but all the races have two initial propulsion techs and most races have one initial armor tech. Too bad.
For custom races it means you should take at least one additional tech (whatever you want) in construction, otherwise you'll probably be defenseless against invasions for a long time.

However once you're out (three techs in a field), you're out.
Now you have your resources spread too thin over a ton of possibly redundant for you techs, but that's a better problem to have.


Personally, I think the situation can be remedied by:
1) Reducing the probability of discovering a new tech greatly (or shifting it more to high levels) and adding a "Search for new tech" field, so that a player can gamble for a new tech if they are not satisfied by existing one (probably, with chance influenced by creativeness and existing cumulative tech level in the field)
2) Adding a possibility to block research on a certain topic a player is not interested in (first click on a tech is prioritizing it, second click on the same tech is blocking it (red font), third click is reverting it to normal priority)