I'm a relatively new player (about 1 month), and just have a couple of thoughts....
I like the recent changes made to the game - especially being able to design starbases.
Planet colonization I'm not so keen on, in its present format. Every planet colonized seems to be able to hold the same number of building/structures/upgrades, which is 9. Why not vary that number based on the planet type, size and habitability? This way players have to make decisions about how a newly colonized planet will be used.
Space battles - is there a good tutorial, or writeup, somewhere that explains how to handle them? I'm lost and confused.
Thoughts on the latest version
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True_poser
- Contributor
- Posts: 165
- Location: Minsk
Re: Thoughts on the latest version
Space battles...
Well, at the moment they're as awkward as my English.
Keep in mind that I'm describing v4.61, I'm certain that release version will have good space combat.
Long story short:
- buy motherships with shields, heavy guns in front (to attack planets), regular guns all around (evenly across 6 slots left), doesn't matter what guns
- !!!research targeting!!!, neglect guns, missiles, engines and generators, set the best absorption rate tech you have as armor, don't be fanatical about shields level (it affects only recharge speed).
- amass fleets from 4-5 motherships min, give them orders from the main map and just leave them on auto in the tactical combat
Long story long:
Ok, first you research technology, then you design the ship, then you buil^Wbuy it, then you fight.
Research
Engines
You don't need engines to create a capable warship.
Really, level 1 differs from level 10 by ~25%.
All that matters is the size of your ship.
Scouts can turn 180 and fly there.
Transports can turn 180.
Cruisers can turn 90.
Motherships can turn like, 30 or something. It really is a pain to try to maneuver on them.
Power generators
Also, no need in researching them whatsoever.
At the worst case we can have such power usage (all numers for mothership, for smaller hulls just divide everything on 2, 4 or 21):
- weapons - 360 (free space after shieldsl) * 10/6 (energy_used/space_used at 10 lvl)
- systems - 440 (shields) + 220 (bio-energy armor) + 198 (nuclear engines) + 22 (life support) + 22 (ECM) + 22 (targeting) + 1 (scanners) + 1 (hailcomm)
- total - 1526 energy
Ok, organic generator 10 lvl generates 4180*0,68 = 2842,4, but we're talking about the worst case, right?
Well, in the worst case - organic generator 1 lvl generates 2200*0,5 = 1100, so we'll run out of energy after firing ~90% of cannons on the third turn.
Hooray, if:
1) we thoroughly neglect power generators
2) we use the weakest technology available (nuclear 1 lvl allows us nearly five turns firing nonstop)
3) we're lucky to have targets in all arcs all the time (with 72 max point defense we have five turns on organic 1 lvl and >20 turns on nuclear 1 lvl)
we can finally get in the red on the energy.
Bottom line - no need to worry about power.
Energy condensators are a waste of research points too.
Weapons
You know what? Yeah, right.
But I have to prove it, so here's another wall of text.
Each race starts with their own weapons of choice:
- Barbecks have neutron streamers, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Tantic have particle cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Humans have laser cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Kamzaks have photon disruptors, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Kuntari have plasma bolt cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Gargals have ion cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Lezgoon have ion cannons, fusion bombs, nuclear missiles and antimatter torpedoes
- Barsigs have ion cannons, fusion bombs, nuclear missiles and proton torpedoes
so they can't be too different because balancing.
However, they are not different at all.
5 lvl lineup gives us:
- laser - 20dmg, critical strike
- plasma - 20dmg, weaken armor
- particle - 20dmg, shield piercing
- neutron - 22dmg, burn
- ion - 22dmg, disrupt ECM
- photon - 22dmg, disrupt targeting
- pulse - 23dmg, power leak
- neutrino - 25dmg, vorpal
- crystal - 27dmg, vorpal
All these weapons are essentially the same all way to the end.
They have the same size and power usage, the same bonuses to accuracy, dissipation, they don't really differ much.
I usually don't have serious enemies at 5 lvl (glacial research speed, remember?) to test the differences between special effects.
If you create a race, take crystal.
Ok, also we have identical:
- bombs (neutron = fusion + 2 lvl)
- missiles (neutron = nuclear + 2 lvl)
- and torpedoes (unlike MOO2, they're the same as missiles here; antimatter = proton + 2 lvl)
So don't worry, research what you have on start and be happy.
Armor and shields
Armor first negates part of the damage (up to 77%), then takes the hit.
If any armor segment is breached, the ship is dead.
It would make an interesting choice if:
- all armor HPs weren't the same
- at the same lvl, titanium < bio-mechanical (5% auto-repair) < stratium < duranium < bio-energy (10% auto-repair), with bio-energy having the highest absorption rate and highest auto-repair rate at once.
So, take bio-energy as you don't have to worry about power.
There's only one type of shields, and level-up bonuses aren't interesting, so just have it available for install.
WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
The only important technology is targeting systems in electronics.
This tech will give you real good damage dealt boost merely by allowing you to hit the enemy.
Design
Never mind the scouts, here are the motherships!
No, really. You'll just get tired from the micromanagement.
You won't be able to build small ships that can pack a punch - 27dmg/6space is the limit for guns and 150dmg/6space for missiles (which are not effective).
Ok, now for another interesting topic - supply bays.
Supply bays define, how far can your ship go from your colonies (or races you have refueling agreements with) without having speed penalties.
Star bases add two squares up and down the square with colony for free.
- scout - contrary to the name, you can't fit supply bays on a scout, so they are effectively confined within a system
- transport - 1 supply bay = 8 turns ~ 10 squares
- cruiser - 1 supply bay = 4 turns ~ 5 squares
- mothership - 1 supply bay = 2 turns ~ 2 squares
You have to make sure you have enough supply bays for your intended theatre of operation, otherwise your fleets will be crippled (take Barbeks in 4.61 to learn, how it is).
Ok, shields, best armor, 1 supply bay for transport or 2 for mothership, auto-repair bots...
All other specials seem useless to me at the moment. I don't do boarding, fighter bays do not work for me, gathering enough mass for invasion is frustrating.
We've got some space left. For guns!
We have three mounts:
- heavy - x1,5 dmg, x2 space, can attack planets, 120 arc
- regular - x1 dmg, x1 space, can attack missiles, 120 arc
- light - x0,5 dmg, x0,5 space, can attack missiles, 360 arc
I found out that it's too bothersome to have specialized invasion/bomber ships.
Also, maneuvering mothership is a pain.
And all your weapons in one slot may be damaged by a stray shot from some scout.
So:
1) in front two slots place your best cannons in heavy mount
2) in all other six slots place your best cannons in regular version
3) increase their number evenly until there's no space left
I don't like missiles/torpedoes here, they are too slow and are jammed/destroyed too easily on low levels.
On high levels you usually don't have enemies left (Antarans, anyone?).
Battle
Oh, boy...
First, there can be multiple battles going on simultaneously.
You can switch from one to another, but when you end your turn (by using all your ships in this sector) the turn is spent in all other battles too.
Second, it is not really clear, what ship will be selected, when you press "done" on this one. Sometimes a ship may even skip a turn. And it's totally not clear when your turn ends.
Third, your fleet usually does not get to the sector in order, you'll usually have stray ships.
Fourth, minimap is rigidly divided onto squares. And you can't zoom out.
Fifth, there is no "end" to the battle. You can click "auto" or skip to the end, but that's all. And you don't get any battle results in no form at all.
Sixth, ships are really slow compared to the scale of the battlefield. Remember, you can't zoom out, have stray ships that sometimes skip turns and so on? Getting your fleet to the battle is the real battle. Realism, ho!
Seventh, even if you gave your ships an order from the main map, for instance "move to another sector", you'll inevitably get drawn to the combat map with your ships if an enemy is present.
Guess, who has to manually guide your ships out of sector (they won't do it themselves)? Right.
You can't retreat automatically. You just can't.
Eights, ships' speed is really low compared to the distance between systems. 8 turns, 10 turns.
Logistics is a nightmare, whole political map may be redefined when your ships will finally get to their destination. "Endless War", right.
Ok, rant aside, here's the most effective way to wage a war:
- you attack one sector at time
- you amass a decent fleet of motherships
- you give them order "bombard the colony" or "orbit the planet" if you want everything in the sector destroyed
- you press "auto" and skip to finish, then check how many ships survived
I enjoyed missiles x2 full-alpha small-ships attacks in MOO2, but here I just can't play tactics.
I'm sorry.
Well, at the moment they're as awkward as my English.
Keep in mind that I'm describing v4.61, I'm certain that release version will have good space combat.
Long story short:
- buy motherships with shields, heavy guns in front (to attack planets), regular guns all around (evenly across 6 slots left), doesn't matter what guns
- !!!research targeting!!!, neglect guns, missiles, engines and generators, set the best absorption rate tech you have as armor, don't be fanatical about shields level (it affects only recharge speed).
- amass fleets from 4-5 motherships min, give them orders from the main map and just leave them on auto in the tactical combat
Long story long:
Ok, first you research technology, then you design the ship, then you buil^Wbuy it, then you fight.
Research
Engines
You don't need engines to create a capable warship.
Really, level 1 differs from level 10 by ~25%.
All that matters is the size of your ship.
Scouts can turn 180 and fly there.
Transports can turn 180.
Cruisers can turn 90.
Motherships can turn like, 30 or something. It really is a pain to try to maneuver on them.
Power generators
Also, no need in researching them whatsoever.
At the worst case we can have such power usage (all numers for mothership, for smaller hulls just divide everything on 2, 4 or 21):
- weapons - 360 (free space after shieldsl) * 10/6 (energy_used/space_used at 10 lvl)
- systems - 440 (shields) + 220 (bio-energy armor) + 198 (nuclear engines) + 22 (life support) + 22 (ECM) + 22 (targeting) + 1 (scanners) + 1 (hailcomm)
- total - 1526 energy
Ok, organic generator 10 lvl generates 4180*0,68 = 2842,4, but we're talking about the worst case, right?
Well, in the worst case - organic generator 1 lvl generates 2200*0,5 = 1100, so we'll run out of energy after firing ~90% of cannons on the third turn.
Hooray, if:
1) we thoroughly neglect power generators
2) we use the weakest technology available (nuclear 1 lvl allows us nearly five turns firing nonstop)
3) we're lucky to have targets in all arcs all the time (with 72 max point defense we have five turns on organic 1 lvl and >20 turns on nuclear 1 lvl)
we can finally get in the red on the energy.
Bottom line - no need to worry about power.
Energy condensators are a waste of research points too.
Weapons
You know what? Yeah, right.
But I have to prove it, so here's another wall of text.
Each race starts with their own weapons of choice:
- Barbecks have neutron streamers, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Tantic have particle cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Humans have laser cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Kamzaks have photon disruptors, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Kuntari have plasma bolt cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Gargals have ion cannons, fusion bombs and nuclear missiles
- Lezgoon have ion cannons, fusion bombs, nuclear missiles and antimatter torpedoes
- Barsigs have ion cannons, fusion bombs, nuclear missiles and proton torpedoes
so they can't be too different because balancing.
However, they are not different at all.
5 lvl lineup gives us:
- laser - 20dmg, critical strike
- plasma - 20dmg, weaken armor
- particle - 20dmg, shield piercing
- neutron - 22dmg, burn
- ion - 22dmg, disrupt ECM
- photon - 22dmg, disrupt targeting
- pulse - 23dmg, power leak
- neutrino - 25dmg, vorpal
- crystal - 27dmg, vorpal
All these weapons are essentially the same all way to the end.
They have the same size and power usage, the same bonuses to accuracy, dissipation, they don't really differ much.
I usually don't have serious enemies at 5 lvl (glacial research speed, remember?) to test the differences between special effects.
If you create a race, take crystal.
Ok, also we have identical:
- bombs (neutron = fusion + 2 lvl)
- missiles (neutron = nuclear + 2 lvl)
- and torpedoes (unlike MOO2, they're the same as missiles here; antimatter = proton + 2 lvl)
So don't worry, research what you have on start and be happy.
Armor and shields
Armor first negates part of the damage (up to 77%), then takes the hit.
If any armor segment is breached, the ship is dead.
It would make an interesting choice if:
- all armor HPs weren't the same
- at the same lvl, titanium < bio-mechanical (5% auto-repair) < stratium < duranium < bio-energy (10% auto-repair), with bio-energy having the highest absorption rate and highest auto-repair rate at once.
So, take bio-energy as you don't have to worry about power.
There's only one type of shields, and level-up bonuses aren't interesting, so just have it available for install.
WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
The only important technology is targeting systems in electronics.
This tech will give you real good damage dealt boost merely by allowing you to hit the enemy.
Design
Never mind the scouts, here are the motherships!
No, really. You'll just get tired from the micromanagement.
You won't be able to build small ships that can pack a punch - 27dmg/6space is the limit for guns and 150dmg/6space for missiles (which are not effective).
Ok, now for another interesting topic - supply bays.
Supply bays define, how far can your ship go from your colonies (or races you have refueling agreements with) without having speed penalties.
Star bases add two squares up and down the square with colony for free.
- scout - contrary to the name, you can't fit supply bays on a scout, so they are effectively confined within a system
- transport - 1 supply bay = 8 turns ~ 10 squares
- cruiser - 1 supply bay = 4 turns ~ 5 squares
- mothership - 1 supply bay = 2 turns ~ 2 squares
You have to make sure you have enough supply bays for your intended theatre of operation, otherwise your fleets will be crippled (take Barbeks in 4.61 to learn, how it is).
Ok, shields, best armor, 1 supply bay for transport or 2 for mothership, auto-repair bots...
All other specials seem useless to me at the moment. I don't do boarding, fighter bays do not work for me, gathering enough mass for invasion is frustrating.
We've got some space left. For guns!
We have three mounts:
- heavy - x1,5 dmg, x2 space, can attack planets, 120 arc
- regular - x1 dmg, x1 space, can attack missiles, 120 arc
- light - x0,5 dmg, x0,5 space, can attack missiles, 360 arc
I found out that it's too bothersome to have specialized invasion/bomber ships.
Also, maneuvering mothership is a pain.
And all your weapons in one slot may be damaged by a stray shot from some scout.
So:
1) in front two slots place your best cannons in heavy mount
2) in all other six slots place your best cannons in regular version
3) increase their number evenly until there's no space left
I don't like missiles/torpedoes here, they are too slow and are jammed/destroyed too easily on low levels.
On high levels you usually don't have enemies left (Antarans, anyone?).
Battle
Oh, boy...
First, there can be multiple battles going on simultaneously.
You can switch from one to another, but when you end your turn (by using all your ships in this sector) the turn is spent in all other battles too.
Second, it is not really clear, what ship will be selected, when you press "done" on this one. Sometimes a ship may even skip a turn. And it's totally not clear when your turn ends.
Third, your fleet usually does not get to the sector in order, you'll usually have stray ships.
Fourth, minimap is rigidly divided onto squares. And you can't zoom out.
Fifth, there is no "end" to the battle. You can click "auto" or skip to the end, but that's all. And you don't get any battle results in no form at all.
Sixth, ships are really slow compared to the scale of the battlefield. Remember, you can't zoom out, have stray ships that sometimes skip turns and so on? Getting your fleet to the battle is the real battle. Realism, ho!
Seventh, even if you gave your ships an order from the main map, for instance "move to another sector", you'll inevitably get drawn to the combat map with your ships if an enemy is present.
Guess, who has to manually guide your ships out of sector (they won't do it themselves)? Right.
You can't retreat automatically. You just can't.
Eights, ships' speed is really low compared to the distance between systems. 8 turns, 10 turns.
Logistics is a nightmare, whole political map may be redefined when your ships will finally get to their destination. "Endless War", right.
Ok, rant aside, here's the most effective way to wage a war:
- you attack one sector at time
- you amass a decent fleet of motherships
- you give them order "bombard the colony" or "orbit the planet" if you want everything in the sector destroyed
- you press "auto" and skip to finish, then check how many ships survived
I enjoyed missiles x2 full-alpha small-ships attacks in MOO2, but here I just can't play tactics.
I'm sorry.