What is this AI?

[bidusv1]

So I tried like 6 times to start a game on normal me terran and normal game difficulty 90 or so stars whatever...
The fact is ,either thhe AI cheats like it's nothing either it always start with at least 3 systems already occupied. I barely explore a few turns with my scout and I find the first AI ,everytime he had 4 systems already what..? And 30 turns or so later, the other ones have like 6-7 systems while I still look for my third system hoping for a compatible planet to settle.

And issue number 2...I get that there are 2 AI's that always will declare war on me no matter what (paid them tribute in advance,gifts..they say tank you then war)... but how come they always seem to spawn big fleets out of nowhere in my backup systems..not even on the borders..they suddenly appear far in the back of my empire and start killing all my planets because you can never catch them...they atack then run and dissapear again and again appear when you expect less..is this a cloaking tech I'm missing or blatant cheating ?

Third, how come sometimes I sent 2-3 fleets and somewhere along the road one fleet or two will simply vanish and appear a couple turns later on the map...

Four...how much does the AI actually cheats? Because it's pretty obvious that not only he can spawn big fleets anywhere he wants inside my borders but those must cost like...very big maintenance...I barely have 3 cruisers and like 10 medium raiders and I'm bordering negative income....(even tho upgraded trade&turism first alot on all planets)

[Madbiologist]

Have you set the game mode to Classic? Normal mode has asymmetrical starts as some races are more advanced than others. That mode is usually meant to be played with the missions and the storyline.

If you want a more traditional 4X start where everyone starts equal then select classic. The mouse over tool tips should explain this as well.

[bidusv1]

Yea I think I'm done with this ,the level of cheating on the AI is ridiculous. I have screenshot where Harkan with only 6 systems and at war with other allies, attacks me with ~2.500.000 troops (thats a swarm of 50+ ships lagging every turn) + ~15 motherships + at least 30 small stuff, all in one clutter , lagging every turn and taking my planets one by one that is ...ridiculous. I like had 6 systems very good planets, on 7 systems 25billions income...can barely make 5 mothersips on that and some leftovers to suport.....and still the ai had very far superior tech and 100x my army ...


I don't' get this game, why is it that only 2 races are always willing to trade and everyone else declares war on me just because...after a while?
Come on, I mean te difficulty was set on normal...and it's the 3 or 4'th game every AI but 2 declares war on me and steamroll with far much superior fleet and tech. It's not that I'm that bad...I think I develop quite decent for "normal" difficulty, I specialize planets on their bonuses..have starhip+shipyards at my major production centers...I kinda got it fast how to do it...but to micro 50+ ships on a very dull battle interface it's not something I will do every turn...so that I can somehow surround and fool the AI until he spawns the same stuff faster than I can travel 2 more sectors....

[Grogger]

Yea I think I'm done with this ,the level of cheating on the AI is ridiculous. I have screenshot where Harkan with only 6 systems and at war with other allies, attacks me with ~2.500.000 troops (thats a swarm of 50+ ships lagging every turn) + ~15 motherships + at least 30 small stuff, all in one clutter , lagging every turn and taking my planets one by one that is ...ridiculous. I like had 6 systems very good planets, on 7 systems 25billions income...can barely make 5 mothersips on that and some leftovers to suport.....and still the ai had very far superior tech and 100x my army ...


I don't' get this game, why is it that only 2 races are always willing to trade and everyone else declares war on me just because...after a while?
Come on, I mean te difficulty was set on normal...and it's the 3 or 4'th game every AI but 2 declares war on me and steamroll with far much superior fleet and tech. It's not that I'm that bad...I think I develop quite decent for "normal" difficulty, I specialize planets on their bonuses..have starhip+shipyards at my major production centers...I kinda got it fast how to do it...but to micro 50+ ships on a very dull battle interface it's not something I will do every turn...so that I can somehow surround and fool the AI until he spawns the same stuff faster than I can travel 2 more sectors....

As mentioned by Madbiologist, the races do not start on even footing in scenario mode (this is the story mode - they are stronger than the player, sometimes very much stronger - because they're an older species). In Classic scenario mode, they will start at the same level as the player.

The opponents do not cheat, though it might seem so. They play with the same game mechanics as the player, within the rules.
That being said, the game will be in ongoing balance changes, so you can expect that if there is an issue, we will (hopefully) find it and fix it

[FrozenFallout]

This is one of the major reasons I was drawn to the game. I find it a very interesting approach to a a 4x space game along with 1 giant tactical map for the whole galaxy. It really reminds me of allot of sci-fi shows and movies like Babylon 5 where the humans are far from the most powerful race and every race didn't start on the same playing field. Humans almost got wiped from the face of the galaxy by the Minbari who where far from the most powerful race in that setting.

The other nice thing is you can go back to classic mode where you get to all start out on the same playing field. Also I play dwarf fortress so Im liking the new and improved AI, its nice to see these epic races competing with me for once and even stomping my face in. Losing is fun .

But I do see where your coming from. Have you tried Classic Mode yet or customization of races?

[bidusv1]

Allright so if that's the case,so you say the AI does not cheat "that much" .Don't get me wrong,I like this game alot because of certain reasons,details put into it,else I wouldn't have wasted like 2 straight nights getting my ass steamrolled by what I thought to be normal AI, in such easy ways..
I'll only ask about few more things ,if you please, to answer .
What about these :
Is there any thoughts on improving the turns? Or multiple ship selection and auto-placing ..? There are 2 of the most bothering things,at least for me.If I feel like micro...really? having to place one by one each time,all the ships,no formations ? Truly, the gameplay feels like back to age of empires 1 which is cool,that game was aswesome but even that had formations.

When the AI has swarms of ships and I hit end turn I keep hearing those noises..over and over and over..even on 3x speed,it's very annoying hearing "groojnnhuummmmm" like 30x times speededup .Can't that be avoided?It doesnt even show me why,I just see extremely fast scrolling through some unknown ships weirdly shown in my main system even tho it's empy,always thinking I'm going to get massively backstabbed or something.

And in battles either I'm missing something but when I attack with one of my ships and it doesnt have either the distance proper or the angle, it's turn is wasted..I should at least be able to move it because many times how are you suppose to know about every microscopic ship on that minimap if what part of it it's damaged ,it doesnnt even show you that, only on the enemies..right? While this looks like extreme realism,other parts such as building,population growth,income was extremely simplified and abstractized.

I usually dont equip colonies/scouts with weapons so whenever they are caught by some meaningless enemy scout with 2 lasers equiped,if I auto my ships they'll just run straing into enemy and wait to be destroyed instead of running.

Indeed the atmosphere in this game is very dark, very mystical,horror like(for me looks like a combination between age of empires1+starcraft) you know they all hate you but you never know when they're gonna stomp you with surprise cloacked imba ships. I mean ,with all these imbalances you get quite the genuine thriller atmosphere I give you that,but at least some improvements should be made for players too,to easely manage fleets in micro battles, if that is also an option.Like maybe formations? I don't know about others,maybe I'm the only girl complaining but manually advancing your 30+ fleet and keep it in somewhat good lineup seems quite a big challenge that takes you 2-3 minutes all the ships to move on a sector engage that may take 100 moves to end the battle.It's just ...not good?

And last but not least,maybe in movies the humans are always those left far behind,the stray dogs of the galaxy but they always win in thhe end because it's a movie made for people.
In this game,how are you going to ever win as human if your closest neighbours are 2 who:
-start with 4 systems
-far advanced tech
-laugh at every attempt to trade or ask them for something
-eventually declare war when you try to expand closer to their borders which is the only places where you can and hope there is at least one decent planet .
-steamroll with much superior fleet (microing is a horror task and usually better let fights on auto than spend 1 hour on each battle
-game difficulty doesnt seem to take into account it's purpose, it's only because it has to be an option
-the economy is somewhat extremely random ,I had planets with poor resources quickly equalling or having better income than those with abundant,planets where for no reason tourism and trade fluorished as opposed to others..which is fine, interesting..but makes planning a hardcore task.
-it's enough for the enemy to steal one colony and the whole economy is going to downslide quick..he more superior fleet,more money, you less inferior fleet,less money. You can't outsmart that in a game with fixed mechanics(if AI upper hand,he aint going to accept any truce unless you surrender or give him so much that there's no point to play after that) and a battle interface reminiscient of 95' graphics and pathing. In movies it's scripted....

[bidusv1]

This is one of the major reasons I was drawn to the game. I find it a very interesting approach to a a 4x space game along with 1 giant tactical map for the whole galaxy. It really reminds me of allot of sci-fi shows and movies like Babylon 5 where the humans are far from the most powerful race and every race didn't start on the same playing field. Humans almost got wiped from the face of the galaxy by the Minbari who where far from the most powerful race in that setting.

The other nice thing is you can go back to classic mode where you get to all start out on the same playing field. Also I play dwarf fortress so Im liking the new and improved AI, its nice to see these epic races competing with me for once and even stomping my face in. Losing is fun .

But I do see where your coming from. Have you tried Classic Mode yet or customization of races?

Yes I found that you can set them all on passive/social/traders but that simply takes out all the fun.I guess it's like,the designers let the player craft his own difficulty setting and races if they're not pleased with the randomly made ones by them.Fine but such involvement on the player side takes out much of the fun and the atmosphere which this game seems to emphasis on.
If you love the human race and want to play with it...so you're the one left behind,powerless against them,have to struggle,to find a smart way,to hope for lucky planets...OR you can simply trigger the enemy to be a nice trader bot who never bothers you....

Ah I see the difference between Classic and Normal. Well I recall I did choose both in my games but saw no difference.Maybe I am that bad,who knows...I'l just keep trying now

[FrozenFallout]

This is one of the major reasons I was drawn to the game. I find it a very interesting approach to a a 4x space game along with 1 giant tactical map for the whole galaxy. It really reminds me of allot of sci-fi shows and movies like Babylon 5 where the humans are far from the most powerful race and every race didn't start on the same playing field. Humans almost got wiped from the face of the galaxy by the Minbari who where far from the most powerful race in that setting.

The other nice thing is you can go back to classic mode where you get to all start out on the same playing field. Also I play dwarf fortress so Im liking the new and improved AI, its nice to see these epic races competing with me for once and even stomping my face in. Losing is fun .

But I do see where your coming from. Have you tried Classic Mode yet or customization of races?

Yes I found that you can set them all on passive/social/traders but that simply takes out all the fun.I guess it's like,the designers let the player craft his own difficulty setting and races if they're not pleased with the randomly made ones by them.Fine but such involvement on the player side takes out much of the fun and the atmosphere which this game seems to emphasis on.
If you love the human race and want to play with it...so you're the one left behind,powerless against them,have to struggle,to find a smart way,to hope for lucky planets...OR you can simply trigger the enemy to be a nice trader bot who never bothers you....

Ah I see the difference between Classic and Normal. Well I recall I did choose both in my games but saw no difference.Maybe I am that bad,who knows...I'l just keep trying now

Classic will start all races out at the same tech level and all start with 1 colony just like your normal 4x game. Normal mode is a space opera where everyone is way more powerful then you and you need to slowly creep out into the galaxy and do tons of missions and exploration and colonization and many many turns before you match them in power.

Im loving the new release version much more of an upgrade from the beta version with AI aggression and action. One thing to remember when you are creeping out into the galaxy is that your starting tech is crap and their techs are awesome (to a degree) and I normally start off with a gift to any race I meet (normally nuke power because power supplies still have no real effect on the game) and work with them from there. The diplo in the game is interesting. Fist off older races don't like to talk much so you need to go slow. Second look at the bar under the race and if the arrow is pointing right you are good and unless you really need something you don't need to appease them with a gift of supplies or tech. If its pointing left you need to start giving gifts and trying to make them happy. Once you start setting up trade agreements and non aggression packs I find that they will stop needing appeasement and will start working with you.

If you push to much with a race like when I was building relations with the Har'k I ended up giving them a ton of stuff one turn and was going to ask for non aggression (wanted as much friendliness as possible to try for the non aggression) and ended up, upsetting them because I talked to much and went from 100% to the right back to the middle. So becareful in diplo and relize your not really in compition with these races just yet. You will need a few hundred years under your belt before you really become a compeditor in Normal more.

Classic mode however is very different way of doing things and will remind you of a normal 4x game where everyone starts out on the same ground floor and everyone is in competition with each other from the start. Normal mode you will need to take a step back and remember how small and silly you are to the rest of the races who have been space farring for hundreds if not thousands of years already.

[bidusv1]

Allright I'm now officially at my first classic game dominating 20% the galaxy (~100 stars galaxy) ,basically I have no real opponent now besides colony management(bc I'm mofo playing 9planets persystem). I correct, while some AI's like harkans tend to spawn endless fleets of transporters..(really check the harkans, 90% of his gigantic fleet is all the time transporters ) , it's easy if I tech xenobiology ,that tech which improves diplomacy. Improving it fast and constantly made almost everyone my friend accepting all trade treaties and basically my giving me 10% money help everytime+free tech and declaring war on whoever did it to me(with a few exceptions). I mean even Harkans, which are still the thoughest contender in my current game, accepted to pay me 10% help not tribute, whenever we were making a truce.
Also another bizzare occurence is some octopus race who's homeworld I enslaved would not make peace with me even 100 turns later.I mean there he stands with 2-3 star systems in a war state with me, accepting no peace unless I give him back his homeworld, that's very funny and nostalgic .

Many times my allies asked me for help to defend/attack whatever colonies I could not find on the map.Is there a search function for such cases,that I'm missing?
Couple new tricks I've learned like research only hit chance in electronic, laser in weapons, xenobiology first and those robots/probes that add up industry and food....It seems there is so much trial&error in this game .