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 Post subject: terraforming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:04 pm 
Voyager
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I've got the technology TERRAFORMING (level 10) but I don't know how to use it.
All my colonies (on different kind of planets) always have Terraforming: none

any suggestions are welcome

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:01 am 
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Ok , here is how you use terraforming. Pull up any planet except one that is toxic and next to "ecological control" there will be a small arrow that you can click. This will cycle through until it finally reaches terraform. Please note you must first clean a toxic planet before you can terraform it so the terraform option will not appear for toxic planets. Once it is cleaned it will change to a barren wasteland and you will be able to terraform it. In the screenshot below I have set my ecological control to terraform a new terrain like planet.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Also, if you have assimilated population, you cannot terraform their worlds beyond their "optimal" conditions, I believe. :)


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:40 am 
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I can see this happening if you assimilate a planet which happens to be the optimal type for your own race. There are only so many types of planets and some of the races share the same optimal type so it is also possible that you can assimilated a planet type that is your own optimal type and as such it would not allow further terraforming.

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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:14 pm 
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i ll put my opinion about terraforming..

well, doesnt have too much logic.

first i think that terraforming is too much strong. and its not real.

why - first there is no way in any laws of physics that you can turn Pluto into Earth like planet. WHY. because Pluto is hard away , and it will be frozen forever. Yeah in physics you can settle a colony there , but you cant have earth like planet. Sun from pluto looks like distant star :D so you cant sustain liquid water.

Mars can be turned into Earthlike planet, although there are some disputes about that. BUT, it will take centuries or at least decades (if you are highly advanced race), not just few turns(years).

And there is no way that you can terraform - for example Volcanic/Metal planet to Earth like planet. Nofucking way.

If you ask me, i would fix this terraform to be more "realistic". Only that few planets could be terraformed.

Btw i think that game is very solid, especially since it is on discount :)


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:25 pm 
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You make some really valid points about realism. Depending on when you started playing Horizon, Terraforming went through a revamp back in beta (during early access).

Initially Terraforming was more of an increase in habitable area based on the tech level but it wouldn't terraform as it does now to another type and so on. But a lot of players like this system more (which is also more reminiscent of master of orion) so we opted for a more visual and current system.

Often times gameplay trumps realism. Although it's a fine line and we've always tried to aim for realism when possible.

We don't have any plans to change it but perhaps we will revisit the idea of Terraforming if we do any expansions or sequels.

Thanks for the feedback and glad you think the game is very solid, a lot of work has gone into it! :)

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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:21 pm 
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astral wrote:
And there is no way that you can terraform - for example Volcanic/Metal planet to Earth like planet. Nofucking way.


Here's something to support your suspension of disbelief.

Nowadays more than a half of humans do not live on Earth per se.
We live in cities.

It's only natural that a spacefaring race has no troubles creating a habitation complex with closed cycle to live on an incompatible planet type.
Thus, the terraforming is not changing a planet, but extending a network of habitation complexes over its surface so your population has the space to live in.

Hope that helps.


However, when you look on initial 1/4-1/3 of total pop occupied in farming (about 2-3%% now on Earth and we're not really spacefaring)...
Yes, gameplay trumps everything else.


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:15 am 
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Quote:
And there is no way that you can terraform - for example Volcanic/Metal planet to Earth like planet. Nofucking way.


Sure you could:

    - Solar Shades
    - Introduction of greenhouse gases
    - Orbital mirrors
    - add pariticulate matter (maybe nanites or engineered microrganisms) to upper atmosphere
    - boreholes through the crust to heat surface or vent excess heat into useful energy production
    - seed surface or orbit with heat sources/entrophic converters powered by some of those sweet, sweet nigh unto free scifi energy sources
    - Nanites/Replicators/GM Organisms to transmute/process elements of planet's crust
    - Introduce mass from off world to thicken planet's crust or add an outer crust more suitable for life
    etc etc

Everything I've suggested relies on stuff available in the game's tech tree. Ideas like these are all pretty far out there but that's literally the point of science fiction. :D

Also, since we're talking about it:
    - Is there a way to get the governor to favor 'clean' vs. 'maintain'?
    - How does the governer decide when to terraform?
    - Sometimes when I set a toxic world to 'clean' it will be converted to a terraformable type after a while. Is this random or am I making some sort of progress behind the scenes when I do it?


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Nope, it's not random.
Every toxic planet is barren under that layer of filth.
You just have to remove 4-8k of pollution.


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:11 am 
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Quote:
If you ask me, i would fix this terraform to be more "realistic". Only that few planets could be terraformed.


Its a game and for fun but who knows, perhaps in the future terraforming will be as simple as building a house.

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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:06 am 
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null wrote:
Quote:
And there is no way that you can terraform - for example Volcanic/Metal planet to Earth like planet. Nofucking way.


Sure you could:

    - Solar Shades
    - Introduction of greenhouse gases
    - Orbital mirrors
    - add pariticulate matter (maybe nanites or engineered microrganisms) to upper atmosphere
    - boreholes through the crust to heat surface or vent excess heat into useful energy production
    - seed surface or orbit with heat sources/entrophic converters powered by some of those sweet, sweet nigh unto free scifi energy sources
    - Nanites/Replicators/GM Organisms to transmute/process elements of planet's crust
    - Introduce mass from off world to thicken planet's crust or add an outer crust more suitable for life
    etc etc



most of that what you said is "normal" for example Mars planet.

BUT not planet made of pure metal(metalic) or pluto.

I agree with post before that you can have colonies on pluto planet(even with today technology - if the pluto is closer we could have colony there), but you can not never -never - never transform pluto into oceanic Terran world like Earth. It is far away -and Sun looks like a brighter star - not huge warm like from here on earth. So you cant have liquid water on any way. Because the planet is far away - the temperature is about just 30 degrees about absolute zero :D


Also some cold metallic planet even worse. How you can turn for example planet made just of heavy metals to oceanic world.

@developer thx for answer - maybe you can copy terraforming from game Galactic Civilization 2 -

And even what is "real" like terraforming Mars, it takes only few turns(years) to do that.

-in realty it would need hundreds of years, maybe few decades with "advanced tech".


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:52 am 
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astral wrote:
in realty it would need hundreds of years, maybe few decades with "advanced tech".


Would you like a realistic colony population growth speed?


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 Post subject: Re: terraforming
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:02 am 
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Quote:
How you can turn for example planet made just of heavy metals to oceanic world?


If you accept the rest of the stuff in the tech tree it could be done. The whole thing boils down to problems of energy and matter. For example, being too far away from a star creates an energy deficiency while a metallic planet is composed of matter not terribly useful to a terran biosphere.

However, the rest of the tech tree has stuff that more or less explicitly solves problems of energy and matter. Replicators in particular indicate that your civilization has both the knowledge and energy reserves to perform matter transmutation. Imagine tooling around a metallic planet in a Zamboni with a replicator duct taped to the back programmed to transmute metal into soil (solves the matter problem) while your buddy in orbit throws antimatter powered sun lamps out his spaceship window (solves the energy problem).

-----------------------------
DANGER! BORING PROOF OF CONCEPT MATH:
Power Provided by Sun at Earth's Surface ~ 1.1 kW/m^2
Total Surface Area of Earth = 5.1 * 10^8 km^2 = 5.1 * 10^8 * 10^6 m^2 = 5.1 * 10^14 m^2
Total Power Provided by Sun to Earth ~ 0.5 * 1.1 kW/m^2 * 5.1 * 10^14 m^2 = 2.8 * 10^14 kW = 2.8 * 10^11 MW (Sun only hits ~ 1/2 planet at once)
Hoover Dam Capacity ~ 2 * 10^3 MW
# of Hoover Dams Required for solar replacement ~ 2.8 * 10^11 MW / 2 * 10^3 MW / Hoover Dam = 1.4 * 10^8 Hoover Dams = 140 million Hoover Dams

A major project but probably within the realm of what a star faring civilization could manage.

The real problem is that it's never stated just how much juice you get out of the various generator techs. But if we simplify and assume that the antimatter generators are 100% efficient we get:
1 kg of antimatter provides 1.8 * 10^17 J of energy
kg antimatter required to run solar replacement for 1 yr =
(2.8 * 10^17 W) * ((J / s) / W) * (60 s / min) * (60 min / hr) * (24 hr / day) * (365 day / yr) * ( 1 kg antimatter / (1.8 * 10^17 J)) = 4.9 * 10^7 kg antimatter / yr
= 4.9 * 10^7 kg antimatter / yr
= 49 million kg of antimatter per year

For reference that's about half a load for a bigger Panamax container ship and about as much tea as Pakistan is expected to import from India next year.
You may or may not believe that your space dudes are capable of pulling this off but I submit that it isn't completely inconceivable.
/MATH
-----------------------------

Granted, the lack of Tech prerequisites in Horizon means that you could get Terraforming much earlier than any of the stuff that makes it plausible. But I kinda like the tech system so I guess I'll just resort to gameplay > realism.

Quote:
Would you like a realistic colony population growth speed?


Heh. Good point. :)
Reminds me of a crazy theory some guy came up with to explain the explosive population growth at the beginning of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. He basically postulated that people weren't being born - they were being yanked out of cryotubes once food reserves reached a certain point.


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