FTL Jump (idea for fleet formation)

[CellNav]

Zaimat and all,

The Har'Kan have a special ability that allows them to move twice in a turn, they jump then move. This jump logic is perfect for maintaining fleet cohesion when a fleet with several size ships move across the galaxy. Instead of the fleet "moving" square by square, they jump or leap frog using one speed. The FTL jump drive could be a new tech and it's engine is assumed to be installed in every ship (no need to have dissimilar drives).

A good example would be a fleet of 10 ships ... 2 huge, 3 large, 3 medium, 2 small. Right now, if we ordered this fleet to move to a different sector, the fleet will stretch out longitudinally with the small ships in the lead and the huge in trail. Using "jump" logic, the ships all jump the same amount of squares keeping their relative positions. Also, if the player had a formation screen (where ships are told where to be positioned inside the fleet) then we can see how easy it would be for the ships to "jump" to their position and once all the ships are in formation they all jump to their destination. It would be understood that a disorganized fleet might take a turn or two to "form up" before moving but that's a given.

The idea using the Har'Kan jump is about the only thing I can come up with when trying to move a fleet across the galaxy. We all know formation moves have been suggested and they are working on it but I don't know if the Har'Kan Jump would solve the issue.

[Yarodin]

Sounds good - the jump technology as well as the idea of fleet formation. Going into a battle with a fleet order is much more effective than with all ships scattered over the sector like straws in a haystack. Not to mention that every space admiral would resign if the navy would be this sloppy
We're talking about the space navy here not a bunch of pirates. Speaking of pirates....

[FrozenFallout]

I like the Idea of a FTL jump drive in game. Currently engines all seem very much the same and also have around the same speed so even late game it takes about the same time as it does at the start of the game to cross the galaxy. I really do like how the game is one huge tactical map but the movement restrictions that are caused by this does make it seem a little odd.

One thing about FTL movements is I would make them different then current movement system. You should have to choice to use your FTL drive and it should take something like 5 to 10 combat turns, or perhaps the whole combat for it to heat up. During this time your ship cant move or shoot. This makes it vulnerable and takes time so that your not just jumping out and back into fights. Also you shouldn't be able to FTL in side any Solar system Grid. Something to do with the Gravity in these areas. This would allow you to see the enemy coming if they FTL onto your doorstep. You should also be able to move much greater distances in an FTL jump then you would be able to for a normal 5 to 10 turns of combat. The higher the level of FTL the farther you can move.

I also hope that fleet formations can work not just with FTL but for normal movement as well. Once in combat sure break formation and engage (should have a setting for each ship like escape if encountering combat, Hold ground, or Pursue attackers setting for ships as well) but during normal movement and hanging out they should have a basic formation they hang out in and move at the same speed as the slowest ship.

[CellNav]

One other method to move a fleet in sub-space could be done with abstraction. When the fleet "warps", the ships pop out and the ships are put in a fleet container. This means the fleet isn't represented by individual ships but instead replaced by a fleet counter. When the fleet reaches it's destination or detects a hostile en route, the fleet will come out of warp and the ships are deployed in their correct positions within the formation. If the fleet doesn't engage anything en route, then at the beginning of each turn, the ships are dumped from the container and are shown in the sector like we see now. The process is something that occurs behind the scenes and the player doesn't actually see the fleet counter (container). Like FrozenFallout suggested, there would be certain rules applied. The process almost works like the Jump Gates in the game now except that the game will be tracking the fleets position in real time.

[Zaimat]

I like the idea of Jump Engines but we want a system where ships can be intercepted while moving otherwise it will remove an important strategic element. To allow that, the way I imagine it we would really need to have (and show/fight in) hyperspace travel as well as normal space.

That's really not necessary though for formations. We can make formations with the current system given time and a little effort. It's just not a high priority at the moment so it's on the nice-to-have list.

[Yarodin]

I also hope that fleet formations can work not just with FTL but for normal movement as well. Once in combat sure break formation and engage (should have a setting for each ship like escape if encountering combat, Hold ground, or Pursue attackers setting for ships as well) but during normal movement and hanging out they should have a basic formation they hang out in and move at the same speed as the slowest ship.

I totally agree. I find it a little exhausting when my ships start at the edge of the sector and I have to move every ship seperatedly towards the enemy. To set a fleet course would help enormously. Once in combat range, the player could choose whether to disperse and attack individually or to maintain fleet formation and select targets to concentrate fire on. To assign roles / behaviour to ships is a nice idea but only necessary if you want to fight the battle in auto mode.

Fighting in hyperspace - why not? To make it nasty, one could tweek conditions for such a fight (lesser/longer beam range, missile efficiancy, no shields or something like that), just a thought.

[FrozenFallout]

I like the idea of Jump Engines but we want a system where ships can be intercepted while moving otherwise it will remove an important strategic element. To allow that, the way I imagine it we would really need to have (and show/fight in) hyperspace travel as well as normal space.

That's really not necessary though for formations. We can make formations with the current system given time and a little effort. It's just not a high priority at the moment so it's on the nice-to-have list.

Showing ships in Hyperspace would be cool and when I think of stuff like this I think of Babylon 5 where they have Hyperspace and normal space. Maybe even have a hyper space map or just have ships in hyper space show differently on the Strategic and Tactical map (maybe a different icon). Only ships in Hyperspace can interact with ships in side of hyper space. Inside of Hyperspace maybe give a x3 or so move bonus to ships.

Would be cool like Yarodin says to have Hyperspace have different effects on ships and weapon systems. I really like how in Babylon 5 they warned against fighting in Hyperspace as through out history any ships that did so where both destroyed due to how Hyperspace interacted with weapons (something like that at least but I don't remember exactly how they explained it) I don't think it should be so extreme but maybe have it effect different systems, improving some while nerfing others.

I really like the idea of having 2 different types of movement in the game, one for long distant and one for combat, but one thing I like about the current system of moving all fleets through normal space is like Zaimat says you have the ability to intercept a fleet before it gets to you. Very few games have this kinda system and it always upset me that I couldnt intercept fleets in games like Moo2 or Endless Space. Even Distant Worlds requires you to have a warp jammer to stop a ship from warping off or to pull it out of its warp bubble. With the current set up as long as I see a fleet coming or have fleets stationed around my sector I can stop them from even getting close to my worlds.

[Yarodin]

In MoO2, you had Warp dissipators to slow others down and to give you time to get a response fleet in place. But fighting took place always in a solar system. They forced you to attack at the enemies colony because they wanted to avoid that you kill the fleet and the colony in seperate fights.

When fighting in hyperspace, I thought more of the Harrington novels. Hyperspace reduced your scanner range, missilles where useless and shields where gone (in a grav wave, which is a kind of hyperspace highway). That reduced combat to knife range energy fire with a lot of risks for attacker and defender.

And you had to pop out of hyperspace at the solar systems hyperlimit, so you couldn't pop out right on top of the enemy fleet. You had to advance slower, giving the enemy time to build up their defenses.

[FrozenFallout]

In MoO2, you had Warp dissipators to slow others down and to give you time to get a response fleet in place. But fighting took place always in a solar system. They forced you to attack at the enemies colony because they wanted to avoid that you kill the fleet and the colony in seperate fights.

When fighting in hyperspace, I thought more of the Harrington novels. Hyperspace reduced your scanner range, missilles where useless and shields where gone (in a grav wave, which is a kind of hyperspace highway). That reduced combat to knife range energy fire with a lot of risks for attacker and defender.

And you had to pop out of hyperspace at the solar systems hyperlimit, so you couldn't pop out right on top of the enemy fleet. You had to advance slower, giving the enemy time to build up their defenses.

SAAVIK: "Trouble with... (Hyperspace)... sir, is all that static discharge and gas clouds our tactical display. Visual won't function and shields will be useless."

JOACHIM: "We can't follow them into... (Hyperspace) ...Our shields would be useless."

[Ivyravens]

I really like how in Babylon 5 they warned against fighting in Hyperspace as through out history any ships that did so where both destroyed due to how Hyperspace interacted with weapons.


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balisong knives

[keller]

@Ivyravens
I remember that episode of Babylon 5 that you speak of. I believe they said something like no fleet had ever successfully engaged in hyperspace because it would be disaster for both sides

[reefs_of_space]

I like the idea of Jump Engines but we want a system where ships can be intercepted while moving otherwise it will remove an important strategic element. To allow that, the way I imagine it we would really need to have (and show/fight in) hyperspace travel as well as normal space.

That's really not necessary though for formations. We can make formations with the current system given time and a little effort. It's just not a high priority at the moment so it's on the nice-to-have list.

I really like being able to intercept other fleets. Right now the Harkan have stationed several large fleets between my main production worlds and my expansionist fleets. They aren't attacking me but using choking tactics to wear my farthest colonies down. Basically the Harkan and keeping me from resupplying while the Barbecks are slowly wearing me down. I'm certain I'm going to need to retreat back to essentia prime and rebuild and more gradually crush those pesky eyeballs.

If I could just FTL over the Harkan fleets I could just send a big fleet down and wipe the Barbecks.